I don't want to be a Christian anymore...

[GodOwnsMe]

mhh I came across some cool verse in uh Deuteronomium 5/30/6
the Lord, your God will change you and your kids in their hearts. He will make you able to love Him honestly/sincerely and with whole devotion.

God loves You
this is like a bit of my 'critcal topic' I'm a bit confused about aswell...... ya know it's more the relationship-like love rather than getting stressed out cause of expectations..
theres a cool song called Child of God
it goes
Your arms enfold me till I am only
a child of God......

when you wanna love God He'll make you able !!

 

[DaveKerwin]

Originally posted by ghoti


What is easier? Never knowing God in the first place. Thus, no guilt. Tis easier to let go and be free.

ghoti..

Cmon, do you really believe that? Never knowing God is easier? That is absurd!! There is a place for those who reject Jesus Christ. Not knowing God is not knowing LIFE. Whoever believes in the son has life, whoever does not belief do NOT have life, and God's judgement is on him.

Besides that, I do not follow the notion that there is no guilt. There may not be a full awareness of guilt, but it is there. We have a conscience and we have the imprintation of God.

If you think a non-christian life is better, then I challenge you. Go, leave, try it. See for yourself. You will find that my words are true. And if other christians follow you, then go ahead and lead the herd away. God will not deal with that lightly. If you have been entrusted much, then much is expected from you. Just do what it takes dude, stop being selfish.

 

[endure]

ghoti
maybe it is easier as a blind sinner who does not know right and can do anything they want, but there is only one place for them, maybe it is easier but there is no hope for them. if you want to get anywhere near heavon and escape the torment of hell then you must be diffrent. did you expect it to be easy?

i understand the feelings of not wanting to make the sacrifices a christian must make and just getting so tired of everything, i know all about that.
im not going to try and convince you to do these things anyway.
but do you want to change?
you said you feel inside that what your doing is wrong, that you dont feel ok about it.
well aside from doing all these things you dont want to do, do you atleast want to be changed? do you want to live right? i know you dont want to the pain, but do you want to be what your supposed to be?

becuase thats all it takes.
you can never accomplish these things by yourself anyway.
you know what you must do, but you can never do them, not the way your made.
the bible says in 2 corinthians ch 3 that when moses wrote the ten commandments it was a "ministration of death".
he was teaching the people what they must do. but the people had no way to perform it. thus they were condemned becuase they were required to do things they could never do.
becuase our hearts are evil and will not do the will of God and when we try to, there is a great struggle and pain, becuase we are trying change our most basic instincts and cannot, the evil heart in us pulls us away, and it hurts to resist.

but it says that the new testament, through jesus is a "ministration of life".
because now there is the SPIRIT of God that can come into us
and he changes us. it says he changes us into the image of the Glory of God.
you must have the holyspirit fill your life, and then he will get rid of the evil heart and give you a righteous heart that loves to do good and enjoys the things of God.
i know this is true, becuase hes doing it in me.

the bible says "the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life"
teaching a man what he must do will destroy him becuase he is not able to do it.
but giving a man the spirit of God will give him power to change his desires and give him life and salvation.

the holyspirit in your life will do away with this great struggle.

though still there are times when it isnt just easy and it can be hard, but not hard enough to stop you if your with the holypirit.

but be encouraged, paul said that he knew for sure that those who partake in sufferings for christ's sake would surely be comforted, and no one labours for God in vain.
he said in 2 cor 4.17
that he did not mind the light affliction he endured for a moment, because it worked in him a more exceeding eternal glory.

be encouraged, ask the holyspirit to come change your desires and he will the more you spend time with him. as you cry out to God broken, he will surely come.
but even when pain does come, be glad because this pain is only temporary and is setting up great riches and glory im heavon for you that is forever. and be encouraged more, becuase the comfort and blessing of God comes in this life too. but dont think it will always be easy, because as paul had to suffer, you will too. christ will make you able to endure and triumph in all things, but he will not always make it easy.

 

[ghoti]

Originally posted by DaveKerwin
And if other christians follow you, then go ahead and lead the herd away. God will not deal with that lightly. If you have been entrusted much, then much is expected from you.

One reason, I'm afraid....

Originally posted by endure
if you want to get anywhere near heavon and escape the torment of hell then you must be diffrent. did you expect it to be easy?

...

do you atleast want to be changed? do you want to live right? i know you dont want to the pain, but do you want to be what your supposed to be?

Hell is one of the few reasons why I still believe in God at all. I'm afraid. No, I don't want to change. I live right already. I'm a good person. And even if I continue to believe, there's little I could change about myself. You can never reach perfection, but Christians are suppose to constantly strive to be perfect. And I don't want to waste my time doing that. I don't care about who I'm supposed to be. I just want to be me. I just want to be happy.

 

[GraftMeIn]

Ghoti, You say you know all about God. And that you struggle to do what's right, and set a good example for others.

My question for you is this... Do you Know God? You know all about him, but do you have that personal relationship with him? That relationship is what makes me want to serve Him more and more each day.

Also something to think about is this.. What if Jesus decided He just didn't want to die on that cross just for you?

 

[wrench_twister]

Hell is one of the few reasons why I still believe in God at all. I'm afraid. No, I don't want to change. I live right already. I'm a good person. And even if I continue to believe, there's little I could change about myself. You can never reach perfection, but Christians are suppose to constantly strive to be perfect. And I don't want to waste my time doing that. I don't care about who I'm supposed to be. I just want to be me. I just want to be happy.

If your serving God from fear of hell, that's not the right reason.Salvation is not fire insurance.Salvation is a relationship with the most high,mighty,allpowerful God.
No you can't reach perfection,you can only be perfect through Christ. Through his perfection, you are made perfect in the eyes of God.By all means be you,as long as that don't put you out of line wit the word of god.We all have to be ourselves,that's the way we were created,but at the same time, we have some guidelines to live by.
My guess is that you're not going to church, or not going as much. Church is very important in your walk with the Lord. Fellowship builds each other up,and encourages each other.A must IMO
Reading the bible is a must,you can only get out of your heart what you put in it.Put in junk you get junk, put good stuff in there,get good stuff out, godly stuff.
Prayer is necessary, you can't have a close relationship with someone you never talk to.You must talk to Jesus to have that relationship.And that relatonship is precious,and priceless.

The one thing I would do, is just pray about it. It's natural to get discouraged,and wanna quit.I quit for 20 years.
Sunday, try a different church, a church that is growing.One that has new people in it every week, somewhere you can get fed.Somewhere you can get some new information,and a different outlook.
God has something planned for you,and for everyone,just don't give up, hold on to Jesus.

I will be praying for you,and holding you up before the Lord.
Your Brother in Christ
WT

Shoot me a PM if ya want.I'll do what I can

 

[Gerry]

Originally posted by ghoti
I guess I should elaborate more on who I am. I've actually been a Christian for a while. I used to be well versed in Scripture, but gave that up cuz I wasn't interested anymore. No one's trying to talk me out of being Christian; I just don't want to anymore. And I guess you could say (as Mr. Cheese suggested) I'm tired of being what everyone else wants me to be. I'm tired of being perfect. Or striving to be so.

I sincerely believe in God, because I see His existance around me. I know tons about evolution and creation. I know lots about Christianity. And I know a little about other religions. All this and I conclude that God is real, and I can't deny it.

But... I don't want to do all those things I previously listed. I understand that these things don't determine my salvation and I know (as the saying goes) that a Christian isn't perfect, just forgiven. But technically, we if are truly followers of Christ, we should follow in His footsteps and do as He did. We should have fruits of good works. And as James said, without the deeds, the faith is dead.  We should do all those things, but I don't want to do any of them.  I don't even want to change.  I just want to be happy and enjoy life.  And I feel as if I don't need God to do that. 

Why am I scared?  Because I'm basically slapping God in the face.  And no, God's not gonna zap me with a lightening bolt, but God is someone who should be respected and feared.

I do pray sometimes.  I pray that God with help me believe.  And that God won't let me lose my faith...

You mentioned that you know a lot of things. But the One thing you failed to mention knowing is JESUS! And you are right. If you don't know Jesus, it is an unbearable struggle to TRY to be a Christian. And you are right, reading the Bible and Praying is a chore and unfruitful.

Until you know Jesus in a personal way, just as you know your mother and father and your friends, Christianity will never be anything but a long, difficult, unfruitful and unbearable struggle.

As for whether or not He will zap you with a bolt of lightening, I do not know. I know he did one man not long ago who dared Him to. The man (an attorny and alledged intelligent man) stood in the front of his boat and lifted a beer can to the heavens and said words to the effect: "Here! Hit this, if you can"! Imagine those for last words, and imagine him a split second later standing not in his boat, but face to face with God!

Anyway, when you know Jesus you do not have to TRY to be a Christian because you ARE a Christian. And you were right in your observation that Christians are not perfect, just forgiven. And we all struggle through life to some extent. I find no Character in the Bible who served God that did not have trials and struggles. NONE. From the Old Testament to the New. Beginning with the struggles of Adam, whose son was a murderer. The Apostles, and Paul and, my goodness, have you read the life and times of Jesus?

You can complain about wanting to ENJOY LIFE but until you know Jesus you will never have life to enjoy.

My prayer is for you to know Jesus in a real and personal way.

 

[DaveKerwin]

Romans 2: 17b-21

if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth-- you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?

Ghoti, I would ask the same question as Gerry. Do you know Jesus? To me, you are trying to be a Christian without Christ. If you live only for the law, then you miss the point bro.

Do you not love God because he first loved you? Do you not forgive much because you have been forgiven much? You teach others, don't you teach yourself?

 

[DaveKerwin]

Romans if the book for you to read, it is awesome. Here is some more:

Romans 3:9-31

What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. As it is written:

"There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."
"Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."
"Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
"Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know."
"There is no fear of God before their eyes."

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.


Notes:
1. We are not righteous on our own.
2. Doing good things does not make us righteous.
3. Righteousness comes by faith in Jesus Christ alone!
4. It is right to obey God's law, but this is not done to earn salvation, it is done in recognition of Jesus on the cross, remembering his death which will bring our eternal life.

 

[DaveKerwin]

you said "one reason, I am afriad"

Afraid of what? Afraid of misleading a flock? Become a sheep before you become a shephard!!

Here are a few verses
Psalm 27:1
The LORD is my light and my salvation-
whom shall I fear?

Psalm 56:3
When I am afraid,
I will trust in you.

Mark 5:36
Ignoring what they said, Jesus told the synagogue ruler, "Don't be afraid; just believe.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Revelation 1: 12-18a
I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man," dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!



Please share more about how you feel.

 

[GodOwnsMe]

hey I'm not sure if I can totally understand You.....but ya know it's about so much more than striving to be perfect and doing things because You're scared.......what if God would be totally okay with You not reading the bible today & everything'd be perfectly fine.. would you still do it just cause you love Him ??
thats the kind of stuff I sometimes ask myself........... don't give up sista

 

[ghoti]

I wish you all knew me. It'd be so much easier to explain that way. Unfortunately, you don't. 

 

Originally posted by GraftMeIn
My question for you is this... Do you Know God? You know all about him, but do you have that personal relationship with him? That relationship is what makes me want to serve Him more and more each day.

Also something to think about is this.. What if Jesus decided He just didn't want to die on that cross just for you?

The way the question is always put makes it seem as if I don't. Perhaps I do. Perhaps I don't. I'm not sure anymore. I used to think I did, but I've been questioned so much, so it seems as if I was wrong.

The issue I raise is not believing in God at all. Thus, no heaven or hell. No need for salvation. None of that. Just living life. Being happy. And on that note. Christians often make it seem as if without God you can never be happy. I think that's incorrect. There are tons of happy nonchristian people. Tons of happy Christian people as well. But I don't think people are unhappy if they simply don't believe in God. 

 

Originally posted by wrench_twister
My guess is that you're not going to church, or not going as much.

Actually, I go to church every Sunday. But I hate church. The place and people often makes me mad. And I have no friends there, though I've been there for three and an half years. I was never good at make friends. Especially bad at it among Christians. 

 

Originally posted by Gerry
You mentioned that you know a lot of things. But the One thing you failed to mention knowing is JESUS! And you are right. If you don't know Jesus, it is an unbearable struggle to TRY to be a Christian. And you are right, reading the Bible and Praying is a chore and unfruitful.

...

Anyway, when you know Jesus you do not have to TRY to be a Christian because you ARE a Christian.

Let me explain my thoughts behind the words "Christian" and "saved". I believe being "saved" is receiving salvation by admitting you're a sinner, truly believing in the gospel, and accepting Christ as your savior. I also lean towards the belief of never being able to lose your salvation. But I'm not sure on that, which is why I asked my first post, because I'm not sure what will happen if you stop believing and I've also heard of the unforgivable sin (don't know much about it though). I don't believe being "saved" automatically makes you a "Christian". The word "Christian" literally means "follower of Christ", so I think that a Christian is actually someone who walks in the footsteps of Christ. You know, strives to be like him and such.

I just thought I should clear that up. Because I'm not sure if you're questioning my salvation. There's not a doubt in my mind that I'm saved. It's hard to express my opinions and my confusion, without getting into details of personal beliefs. But I really hope this thread doesn't become a debate on interpretation and theology. I just wanted to explain in hopes that you'll better understand me.

 

[ghoti]

Sorry for rambling so much. I actually don't like to talk a lot, and it upsets me when I do. But I feel a need to get the questions and confusion out. I've never talked to anyone about my doubt, because I don't generally trust people and like I've mentioned, I'm afraid of leading people away. Thank you all for listening.

I guess another thing I should mention is that I don't really enjoy life much. Thus I've never felt very strongly about loving God. Or being thankful to Christ for the life he's given me.

 

[GraftMeIn]

Originally posted by ghoti
The way the question is always put makes it seem as if I don't. Perhaps I do. Perhaps I don't. I'm not sure anymore. I used to think I did, but I've been questioned so much, so it seems as if I was wrong. 

 

I walked around believing and considering myself to be a Christian without having that personal relationship with Christ for years. Wow! If I only knew then what I was missing! Because there's nothing like that personal relationship with Him.

Are you simply doing all those things that others tell you, you need to do in order to be a Christian? If this is the case you are missing out on that personal relationship.

Are you doing those things you feel led in the Spirit to do? If we are doing this we know it. It takes that personal relationship with our Creator in order to experience how the Spirit works through us.

If you have yet to ask God to bring you understanding, and to open your eyes to Him, then I would like to ask you to do this now. And seek him with all your heart and soul. He is always willing to forgive us, but that's not an excuse to walk away from Him.

I'll be praying for you.

 

[Gerry]

GMI has given you some good advice. But the fact that you have mentioned so many times about "Stop believing in God" is why I asked if you knew Him. If you had been saved and had a personal relationship with Jesus. Because if you have that, the idea of NOT believing in Him or NOT believing that God even exists is inconceivable. Can you stop believing in your mother or father? Can you no longer believe your computer exists? When you have a personal relationship with Jesus, He is THAT real.

 

[jcstarkenberg777]

Listen this is coming from someone who only 8 weeks ago gave thir life to christ I would be more scare to be with out him then of him. And if you dont want to do all the things that you think it takes to make a good christian then ask your pastor or someone in the know or talk to anyone that will talk to you about it. I will let me know I would love to help you in any way that I can.
Praise him and only him for nothing is possible with out him!

 

[ghoti]

Originally posted by Gerry
GMI has given you some good advice. But the fact that you have mentioned so many times about "Stop believing in God" is why I asked if you knew Him. If you had been saved and had a personal relationship with Jesus. Because if you have that, the idea of NOT believing in Him or NOT believing that God even exists is inconceivable. Can you stop believing in your mother or father? Can you no longer believe your computer exists? When you have a personal relationship with Jesus, He is THAT real.

No, but those things are all tangible. I can touch them and see them and hear them. I suspect that you'll then say something about the wind. You can't touch or see the wind, but you can feel it. Can you stop believing in the wind? No, because it's proven by science. Thus I can't deny its existence. I offer a different example: what about love? You can't touch or see love, but you can feel it. Can you stop believing in love? Yes.

 

[Gerry]

Well if you want to get deep then tell me this. If you stop believing in love does that mean it ceases to exist? The answer is obvious, isn't it?

But it is clear fom the way you speak, that you have not met Jesus, because when you do, you will know how real He is and He is just as real as anything "tangible".

So all I can say to you is if you are tired of the struggle of "trying" to be a Christian, I don't blame you. It would indeed be a chore for anyone. So quit trying and invite Jesus into your life as Lord and Saviour, and He will make Himself REAL to you.

Nevertheless you are not satisfied with any answer given here or any answer in you thread, about the meaning of life. Yet another indication you have not met Jesus, because He tells us the meaning and purpose of life many times over in writing.

 

[broken mach1ne]

Originally posted by ghoti
Will I lose my salvation if I don't love God anymore?

None of us will be "saved". Hell awaits us all.

 

[Gerry]

Originally posted by broken mach1ne
None of us will be "saved". Hell awaits us all.

Yes, hell awaits all who reject the salvation offered by Jesus. But there will be no Christian in hell.