I don't want other atheists getting in the way here.

[leftyatbest]

This is to keep things civilized on my side. It is the responders job to keep things civilized on your side.

So I'll begin.
I want to to know, if christianity is true, why did god create us?

 

[coreydstone]

I am no expert. But I do believe that theologians have explained that God wanted a creation to interact with that had free will. If Lucifer rebelled the way that most people think he did, it would lead you to believe that the Angels had free will as well, but I thought I had seen a verse that said that Angels didn't have the same...I don't know the word...but like mental structure/personality. But it was more like Angels were servants and God wanted interaction with not necessarily peers but free creatures. It's a tough question, but I hope that made a *little* sense.

~Peace & Blessings

 

[Hentenza]

This is not a debate forum nor an apologetics forum. Folks will answer your question from a Christian perspective though but no debate is allowed.

I hope that you get the answers that you are seeking.

 

[leftyatbest]

Thats fine about the debate. I'm just wanting to know "the meaning of life" from a theist perspective.

Actually corey that is exactly what I was looking for thank you. let me rephrase it in my own terms to make sure I understand you correctly.

God desired a relationship with a being that could Make its own decision whether it also wanted a relationship with "him"
or
God desired a companion to share eternal existence with, but not one that HAD to Share it with him if said being chose not to, So he created man with free will.

Is that a proper understanding?

 

[coreydstone]

Yes! I think those were great restatements!

~Peace & Blessings

 

[leftyatbest]

Good.
I have more questions (this is why I didn't want atheists to get in the way, many would have called me dumb for even caring to ask them)
I have herd christians who also believe evolution justify it a few different ways.
1) a day to god could be thousands or millions of years to us.
2) the bible doesn't say how long adam and eve were in the guarden or what happened outside the gaurden during this time, and since god only said they would die if they ate the fruit they could have lived there for thousands of years before the serpent tempted eve.

Can any of this be clarified a little better. I don't understand how a "day" existed before the son (he didn't create light on the first day, first was heaven and earth), so why did god describe thaT time period as being a day, and him creating everything in 6 days, when to us it was thousands of years.

Did god intend on adam and eve and their offspring to live in the guarden forever if the fruit was not eaten?

 

[coreydstone]

Well first, some scholars suspect that alot of early Genesis was metaphorical or symbolic. Honestly, we don't know. Strict fundamentalists might say that it's a physical word-for-word description, but we KNOW that the writers in the Bible frequently use metaphorical language. It's very possible that Eden is not the stereotypical way that we view Eden. The early men who wrote the books obviously weren't acquainted with science as we know it, so it's very possible that Genesis is a simplified description.

Some do believe that yes "day" could be code for "stage" or something as again early man could not have comprehended God's knowledge of the universe.

God put the tree in the garden so that man had free will. They could choose to know sin and its pleasures--it was their choice. Some argue that the Angels didn't have that choice as aforementioned. SO, it was God's intent that we choose Him, BUT considering God is all-powerful and all-knowing, He knew that we would choose the immediate gratification of the fruit, as is the nature of those with free will. So God instituted another plan. He sent Christ to be the bridge that brought things back to the way they were originally intended--man's communion with God. We just had to take the long way around because we choose foolishly.

~Peace & Blessings

 

[leftyatbest]

That bring up the next question. I wanted to ask if angels had free will. Satans (lucifers) actions imply that they do, a lot of people I have talked to have said that they don't, but I haven't found a scripture that specifically says that they don't. Although it is my understanding that they in fact DO have free will, but if they sin its one strike your out. They go to hell with no way to redeem themselves.

 

[coreydstone]

I would agree with your assumption. And you have to realize the difference in (as one website calls it) "the condition of Angels as opposed to the condition of man". Man was created with the "soul" as we know it. God created angels as a different type of entity altogether. The one-strike thing makes sense as they were created to be doers of God's work. They were not created to have free-will. We were. God understands that we will make mistakes. Angels were not created to make mistakes, and if they do, then they do not fulfill their purpose. Our purpose is to be with God and to glorify Him which we can do even if we mess up. We aren't discredited fully from our purpose for being temporarily against God. If that makes sense. I think you have the right idea.

~Peace & Blessings

 

[razeontherock]

I am no expert. But I do believe that theologians have explained that God wanted a creation to interact with that had free will. If Lucifer rebelled the way that most people think he did, it would lead you to believe that the Angels had free will as well, but I thought I had seen a verse that said that Angels didn't have the same

Very good young Padawan! Lucifer's rebellion is a troubling, sobering wake-up call for US not to take the Grace of G-d for granted.

Why did G-d create us? This would be one of those "great, existential questions." You know, the sort of thing the Bible was WRITTEN for! How 'bout this?

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

Kinda humbling, ain't it? I don't believe in "single verse theology," but that's an awfully good place to start, and impossible to argue with.

A deeper angle to look at is that with our every choice, we either serve and glorify satan, or the LORD. Literally every natural impulse we have is against us glorifying the Lord, so for anyone at all to wind up on the right side of G-d's Throne of Judgment really "speaks" to His Greatness.

And both these glimpses bring us to the VERY center of the Bible, which also happens to be the longest chapter, Psalm 119:

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed [thereto] according to thy word."

Lord have Mercy, and help us to be ever mindful of this ...

 

[Rick B]

Why did God create us?
1. Ecclesiastes 12: 13, - "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man."
2. Westminster Shorter Catechism -Question.1. "What is the chief end of man? (What is your purpose?, Why were you created?) Answer. Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy Him forever."

 

[Rick B]

In the beginning God created angels and the first man and woman with a freewill. That is, with the ability to choose good or evil(obedience or disobedience). Lucifer was the first to rebel. He persuaded a third of the created angels to follow him in disobedience. The devil successfully tempted Adam and Eve to willingly rebel against God as well. Both the guilty angels and guilty pair received the penalty of a sinful nature with all that entails. Their natures now changed and fixed from having true righteousness to unrighteousness. Fixed in that neither created class could, by their own ability, change their nature. Their will, motivated by their desires, which was free is now ruined and enslaved to desires which are "only evil continually."(Genesis 6:5) But God chose to accomplish a remedy for mankind. He did not choose to redeem the "fallen" angels. Unregenerated man's will is free to do whatever his desires are within the nature he has, see above. Regenerated man(one whose spirit has been born-again) has been given a new nature by having his sins forgiven and Christ's perfect righteousness imputed to his account. He still carries that old sinful nature with him but it is no longer his slave-master. His will now renewed, he can choose to do what is spiritually good.

 

[razeontherock]

Their will, motivated by their desires, which was free is now ruined and enslaved to desires which are "only evil continually."(Genesis 6:5) But God chose to accomplish a remedy for mankind.

It's interesting to note that each advancing step of the covenant God created with man enacted partial redemption. The passage from Genesis here was undone with the flood, for instance. And the next step, adding Judaism, did quite a bit more. Even the first step of creating animal skins for Adam and Eve must have done something ... these all correspond perfectly to the 7 pieces of furniture in the Mosaic Tabernacle. There's tremendous understanding to be gleaned by it's study!

 

[Rick B]

I've never heard of partial redemption. At least in Protestant Christianity. RCC, however, has created the non-biblical story of purgatory. Is that what you are refering to?