• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

I Don't Sin!

Zeena

..called to BE a Saint
Jul 30, 2004
5,811
691
✟24,353.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I wasn't talking about God finding us to be a sinner. I was talking about how we view ourselves . Even the great Saint Paul called himself "chief among sinners"(1 Timothy 1:15).

In the Divine Liturgy of my Church we pray before communion : "
I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Who camest into the world to save sinners, of whom I am first."
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Is this, also, not Paul speaking?

Galations 2:17-21
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The interpretation you espoused is contrary to this passage of Scripture, is the not?

Is Jesus a sinner?
Is He Paul's Life?
Is Christ not Living in and through him?

1 Corinthians 15:17
And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Also, how can you be chief, when Paul was?
Did you also persecute the Church?
Or is your prayer just words without meaning?
 
Upvote 0

vortigen84

Newbie
Nov 24, 2009
940
31
✟16,900.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
you will live a life that is virtually free of sin. "For as [a man] thinketh in his heart, so is he." Prov 23:7. So what do you think?

I think it's easy to be deluded that you're not a sinner.

If sin is both comission (doing what you ought not) and omission (not doing what you ought)... and Jesus said to be perfect... and the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, strength... and your neighbour as yourself... and you aren't doing that perfectly at all times...

Who on earth is virtually free of sin with a criteria like that?
 
Upvote 0

sungaunga

Junior Member
Jul 10, 2009
931
62
✟34,971.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I think it's easy to be deluded that you're not a sinner.

If sin is both comission (doing what you ought not) and omission (not doing what you ought)... and Jesus said to be perfect... and the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, strength... and your neighbour as yourself... and you aren't doing that perfectly at all times...

Who on earth is virtually free of sin with a criteria like that?

nobody. I have never ever failed to sin a single day in my life. Although there is a decreasing pattern of sin as I mature in Christ, I feel worse about it as I mature. That's why I can't wait to finally be free of this body of "death" as the apostle Paul put it. If someone thinks they are free of sin at that level, they are not kidding me or themselves. It's only when we die and see Jesus, we'll be as He is. That's is why Paul was able to say to die is gain. Great post wiremu.
 
Upvote 0

Zeena

..called to BE a Saint
Jul 30, 2004
5,811
691
✟24,353.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
nobody. I have never ever failed to sin a single day in my life. Although there is a decreasing pattern of sin as I mature in Christ, I feel worse about it as I mature. That's why I can't wait to finally be free of this body of "death" as the apostle Paul put it. If someone thinks they are free of sin at that level, they are not kidding me or themselves. It's only when we die and see Jesus, we'll be as He is. That's is why Paul was able to say to die is gain. Great post wiremu.
Romans 6:6-7
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWe9nC_Jybs
 
Upvote 0

sungaunga

Junior Member
Jul 10, 2009
931
62
✟34,971.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Romans 6:6-7
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWe9nC_Jybs

yes zeena, I understand that. we are no longer slaves to sin, rather slaves to righteousness, Jesus Christ. We are freed from sin in that we no longer "have" to obey sin. Cessation of sin is related to the death of the flesh. The only sinless people are dead in the flesh, dead to this world. Any of them who are alive in this world have sin in their life. In Romans, Paul says "I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my flesh" Zeena, as long as you're alive in this human body, you have a sin problem. And the only relief you're going to get is when you leave this body...when your flesh dies. It's not until we die that we get that imperishable, honorable, glorious, powerful, spiritual, heavenly body. And that's when sin is forever removed.

Paul says in Philipians "Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet...I haven't arrived, but one thing I do," I love this, "one thing he does." Forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal. What's the goal? Christ's likeness. For the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. The goal is Christ's likeness, we pursue it, we don't ever reach it in this life. But it becomes the prize that God gives us in the life to come. What is our goal here is our prize there. We will some day be made like Christ. Until that day when we receive the prize, we pursue that as the goal.

So, Paul is saying, "Look, I haven't arrived." There's no perfection here. He is not a perfectionist. He doesn't believe that you can reach a point where your sin is eradicated, where you no longer sin or transgress against God. That was not his experience, nor was that found in anything that he had received by way of revelation from the Spirit of God. So he is saying I'm in a pursuit and my life is boiled down to one thing, to be like Christ.

hope that helped ^^ love the song!
 
Upvote 0
L

LST 1154

Guest
The only sinless people are dead in the flesh, dead to this world.

You are correct there are no "sinless" people. If one has ever sinned even once in their entire lives they are not nor with they ever be sinless. Since I sinned several hundred thousand (or million) times before I came to Christ, I am not nor will I ever be sinless. But I can be (and am) blameless and holy.

The problem as I see it is this. Most Christians realize shortly after conversion that they still have the desire to sin, so since they usually do what they desire, they sin. Then they are convicted of the sin, they repent, obtain forgiveness and all is well for a few seconds, or minutes, or perhaps days or maybe even weeks but eventually they will sin again. Maybe it was the same "besetting" sin that "got them" before or maybe just a sin that pops up on occasion, but regardless it was a sin. It could have been a little sin or a big sin, but it was a sin. (I include myself in the above statements.)

After this happens a number of times some Christians start looking for the "why" of their sin, and they are told by a well meaning but misguided Christian buddy that "we are sinners, always have been and always will be. We live by our glands just as we did before we became a Christian." Now they have justification for their sinful behaviour, experience! However some decide that experience isn't enough, they want scriptural "proof" that they cannot live above sin. Their Christian buddy tells them to find Romans 7 and they think praise God I've found it, justification to live in sin! The great apostle Paul boldly proclaims "I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate." (verse 15.) The result? They gladly continue in sin satisfied that if the apostle Paul, the man who wrote more of the New Testament than any other man struggled with sin they are in good company! Now that is good news huh? No. However if they read on to the next chapter, they find Romans 8. Now they are in trouble with their sin. Verse 2, "For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death." They are free? Yup, if they are "in Christ Jesus" and if they are "walking according to the Spirit" (verse 4) they are indeed free. To be free from something means it has no dominion over them. Sin no longer has dominion over us if we are in Christ and walking in the Spirit. Does 'walking in the Spirit" include a lifestyle of sin? It doesn't for me, I don't know about you.

I believe the number one target of satan is to convince us that we are still sinners. Tempt us to sin, then when we do, severely condemn us and convince us that Christ's blood may have some power but certainly not enough for us "sinners" to be victorious and live above sin, and if you can find some scriptures that says we cannot sin (1 John 3:9) downplay it or explain it away, after all we have something better than the scriptures, we have experience! Experience shows us that we cannot live above sin. Experience shows us that Christ's death on the cross didn't really destroy the works of the devil. Experience shows us that we are weak and powerless over the devil and his minions, and we should fear him above anything and anyone in the universe.

Ah yes scripture. Surely satan [I refuse to capitilize his name] wouldn't stoop so low as to attempt to twist holy scripture to his advantage would he? He did with Jesus, and he does with us also.

LST
 
Upvote 0

Christos Anesti

Junior Member
Oct 25, 2009
3,487
333
Michigan
✟27,614.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
"As a grain of sand weighed against a large amount of gold, so, in God, is the demand for equitable justice weighed against his compassion. As a handful of sand in the boundless ocean, so are the sins of the flesh in comparison with God's providence and mercy. As a copious spring could not be stopped up with a handful of dust, so the Creator's compassion cannot be conquered by the wickedness of creatures."
-St Isaac of Syria
 
  • Like
Reactions: seashale76
Upvote 0
L

LST 1154

Guest
"As a grain of sand weighed against a large amount of gold, so, in God, is the demand for equitable justice weighed against his compassion. As a handful of sand in the boundless ocean, so are the sins of the flesh in comparison with God's providence and mercy. As a copious spring could not be stopped up with a handful of dust, so the Creator's compassion cannot be conquered by the wickedness of creatures."
-St Isaac of Syria

EXCELLENT QUOTE! Some people get it! As Jesus said in Matt 23:24, ""You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!" God demands absolute perfection from his children, so He gives us His perfection because He knows we don't have any of our own to offer Him.

I guess it is the way we see God as to how He is in our minds. If we want to believe He is a demanding perfectionist we can believe that way, but it will taint our way of thinking about others. We can also believe that He is our benevolent, caring, loving, heavenly Father who loves us unconditionally, and if we think that way it too will affect our way of thinking about others.

LST
 
Upvote 0

Zeena

..called to BE a Saint
Jul 30, 2004
5,811
691
✟24,353.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
yes zeena, I understand that. we are no longer slaves to sin, rather slaves to righteousness, Jesus Christ. We are freed from sin in that we no longer "have" to obey sin. Cessation of sin is related to the death of the flesh. The only sinless people are dead in the flesh, dead to this world. Any of them who are alive in this world have sin in their life. In Romans, Paul says "I know that nothing good dwells in me that is in my flesh"
That is a ripped text in this context, for indeed, Paul did say in other place;

Galatians 6:14
May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Zeena, as long as you're alive in this human body, you have a sin problem. And the only relief you're going to get is when you leave this body...when your flesh dies.

Galatians 5:24
And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof.

As long as you continue to wage war against the flesh you are gonna loose, it's when you give up and reckon yourself dead to it that Christ will win on your behalf.

It's not until we die that we get that imperishable, honorable, glorious, powerful, spiritual, heavenly body.
Until then, does Jesus have the reigns, or do you?

And that's when sin is forever removed.
There's only one verse I can possible think of that can be taken out of context to imply that we still have sin, and that is;

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

But, just a one verse before this simple statement of fact [we HAVE sinned and ARE in need of the Blood of Christ to continually cleanse us from our past sins], John writes thus;

Vs 7 the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Are you implying that you are not cleansed of your sins by the precious Blood of Christ in your preceeding testimony?

Is Paul off his rocker in saying he has sin in his flesh when the Lord expressly states through John that the blood of Christ has cleansed him [and is continually cleansing him] from all sin? Or, is this a misreading of the Scripture?

Don't get me wrong, I too await my Glorified Body, but 'till then, I'll abide in Christ and;

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Paul says in Philipians "Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet...I haven't arrived, but one thing I do," I love this, "one thing he does." Forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal. What's the goal? Christ's likeness. For the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. The goal is Christ's likeness, we pursue it, we don't ever reach it in this life. But it becomes the prize that God gives us in the life to come. What is our goal here is our prize there. We will some day be made like Christ. Until that day when we receive the prize, we pursue that as the goal.

So, Paul is saying, "Look, I haven't arrived." There's no perfection here. He is not a perfectionist. He doesn't believe that you can reach a point where your sin is eradicated, where you no longer sin or transgress against God. That was not his experience, nor was that found in anything that he had received by way of revelation from the Spirit of God. So he is saying I'm in a pursuit and my life is boiled down to one thing, to be like Christ.

hope that helped ^^ love the song!
Ephesians 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Ephesians 4:15
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

You understand there comes a time when a Christian is mature, not needing milk any longer?

1 Peter 2:2
Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
 
Upvote 0

sungaunga

Junior Member
Jul 10, 2009
931
62
✟34,971.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
great replies! I'm in school right now so I will be replying later. I just wanted to be on the same plane as you guys regarding this issue. You guys seem to be adhering to the perfectionist view. So would it be safe to say you hold to the view that, "I don't sin anymore, that is, until the next time I sin?" Or are you all saying I don't and wont sin forever. I'm not asking for verse interpretation. I would like to know the practicality of this view that you hold in your own personal life. Thanks ^^
 
Upvote 0

Zeena

..called to BE a Saint
Jul 30, 2004
5,811
691
✟24,353.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
great replies! I'm in school right now so I will be replying later. I just wanted to be on the same plane as you guys regarding this issue. You guys seem to be adhering to the perfectionist view. So would it be safe to say you hold to the view that, "I don't sin anymore, that is, until the next time I sin?" Or are you all saying I don't and wont sin forever. I'm not asking for verse interpretation. I would like to know the practicality of this view that you hold in your own personal life. Thanks ^^
I'm saying that Jesus doesn't sin, and He's my Life by grace through faith.

It's AS I abide in the vine that HE brings forth fruit in and through me!

And if I don't abide in faith, I sin.

But I know a secret!
The Son abides forever! :D
And He's my Life!
 
Upvote 0

Zeena

..called to BE a Saint
Jul 30, 2004
5,811
691
✟24,353.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe the number one target of satan is to convince us that we are still sinners.
As a man thinks in his heart, so is he..

If we think we're sinners, guess what?
We're GONNA SIN!

Tempt us to sin, then when we do, severely condemn us and convince us that Christ's blood may have some power but certainly not enough for us "sinners" to be victorious and live above sin, and if you can find some scriptures that says we cannot sin (1 John 3:9) downplay it or explain it away, after all we have something better than the scriptures, we have experience! Experience shows us that we cannot live above sin. Experience shows us that Christ's death on the cross didn't really destroy the works of the devil. Experience shows us that we are weak and powerless over the devil and his minions, and we should fear him above anything and anyone in the universe.
Funny that, but I've found that in and of myself, I CAN do nothing!-hehe

I am HAPPY I'm weak against the whiles of sin!
I'm OVERJOYED that my Saviour came to give me His overcoming Life!

1 John 4:4
You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

2 Corinthians 1:24
Not that we lord it over your faith, but we work with you for your joy, because it is by faith you stand firm.

2 Thessalonians 2:15-17
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
Ah yes scripture. Surely satan [I refuse to capitilize his name] wouldn't stoop so low as to attempt to twist holy scripture to his advantage would he? He did with Jesus, and he does with us also.

LST
Yep, he does.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Romans 8:37
No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0