I don't know what to think

[seriously21]

I was born into a christian family and baptised at young age. But I've never been a christian even at a young age I could see right through it. My atheist views have grown stronger as i've entered studies as a computer engineer and that sparked my self study of physics.

Well the reason i am posting this is i don't know whether i should feel that people can believe what they want. I have a friend who was always a christian but recently I feel hes lost himself, he has become almost a robot, following the bible and its every word. He no longer does anything that isnt about god and whenever i talk to him he wants to discuss god but i can't bring myself to tell him just how much i think it is prehistoric and unbelievable. He feels he can convert me and ive just stopped talking to him because he has lost all sense of reality and it makes me sick just thinking about religion.

The reason i came to these forums was, i was asking athiests if they thought we should ignore christians and let them do as they wish. Most said they can believe what ever they want even fundamentalists. I agreed before that, that we couldn't disprove god so people should be free to believe in higher powers but ive never thought that i should support fundamentalists until the conversation with them. I then came here for a look and initially i was almost convinced Christianity was really helping and doing great things here. I then stumbled across these posts of people problems..... real life problems like being a homosexual I read some posts and the ideas being proposed, saying you must leave your partner ect as its not what god wants. I now legitimately feel sick and as i almost want to cry at how disgusting some of the advice given to people is.

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

 

[graceandpeace]

I was born into a christian family and baptised at young age. But I've never been a christian even at a young age I could see right through it. My atheist views have grown stronger as i've entered studies as a computer engineer and that sparked my self study of physics.

Well the reason i am posting this is i don't know whether i should feel that people can believe what they want. I have a friend who was always a christian but recently I feel hes lost himself, he has become almost a robot, following the bible and its every word. He no longer does anything that isnt about god and whenever i talk to him he wants to discuss god but i can't bring myself to tell him just how much i think it is prehistoric and unbelievable. He feels he can convert me and ive just stopped talking to him because he has lost all sense of reality and it makes me sick just thinking about religion.

The reason i came to these forums was, i was asking athiests if they thought we should ignore christians and let them do as they wish. Most said they can believe what ever they want even fundamentalists. I agreed before that, that we couldn't disprove god so people should be free to believe in higher powers but ive never thought that i should support fundamentalists until the conversation with them. I then came here for a look and initially i was almost convinced Christianity was really helping and doing great things here. I then stumbled across these posts of people problems..... real life problems like being a homosexual I read some posts and the ideas being proposed, saying you must leave your partner ect as its not what god wants. I now legitimately feel sick and as i almost want to cry at how disgusting some of the advice given to people is.

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

Hello.

I think there are a few thoughts I can offer.

First, most religions have their moderate/mainstream groups, as well as extremist factions or fundamentalists. Christianity is no exception.

I would suggest that mainstream Christians tend to frown up or reject various fundamentalist views. (I am making some assumptions here about what you might define as extreme or fundamentalist.) I don't think it would do you any good to try to argue with a fundamentalist.

Second, science is not the enemy of religion, though some groups want to promote that narrative. You can believe in evolution & be a Christian, for example. The Genesis creation account in the Bible is not a literal account, but is rather a story designed to convey theological truths. However, fundamentalists & some Conservative Protestants insist on a rigid literal reading & so are put in a position to fight evolution's acceptance.

Third, there are Christian groups who are accepting of LGBT people. I'm in the Episcopal Church, which allows gay persons to be ordained & recently authorized SSM, for example.

Fourth, I wouldn't let this website determine for you what the average Christian thinks. I would suggest most posters here lean conservative. I have seen plenty of bad advice from people of different affiliations, however.

Finally, I am a Christian because (short answer) I believe in Jesus & the hope offered in this faith.

 

[RLBeers]

I hesitate to even consider an answer to this as the usual response is a diatribe of rage. A spiritual life is even more personal and private than what you seem to consider the driving force of yours. If you choose to live as an atheist and he chooses to live as a believer, each are your own choice. Granted, far too many who call themselves Christian do not act in the way Jesus is depicted as acting when people came to him with issues, but to blame the God they believe in is an easy out. There is a considerable amount of copy regarding the issues you have, but none of it matters. Jesus said, in nearly every one of those incidences where people came to him with problems the Jewish law listed as a capital crime was that he did not condemn them and then told them to move past that issue, the "go and sin no more".

Religion can be extremely harmful, especially when coupled with an angry, narrow mind. A brief browse through the news will tell anyone that. The religious Jews in Jesus' day were examples of that type, as are the Muslim extremists today. There are a lot of judgmental passages in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, but there is also a very clear division between religion and faith. Most people, especially those who have rejected the idea of God cannot see the difference, but it does exist. Mother Theresa devoted her life to God, so did Francis of Assisi. To have faith is to not just believe, but to know beyond any argument that God not only exists, but that he cares for you on a very personal level. The religious mind does not like hearing that. Religion is laws, traditions, and harsh strict rules. Faith is understanding the difference between the love of the flesh and the love of the spirit as 1st Corinthians chapter 13 discusses.

As for your friend, why not talk about your concerns rather than argue points? A real friendship allows for that sort of relationship. Try setting aside the notion that he is somehow violating a rule about what can be believed and find out the motivation for that belief. For myself, it is not a dilemma, but the experiences I have had do not have any bearing on yours. The bible states in Hebrews 11, "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Perhaps it may be worth getting past this hurdle.

 

[hedrick]

Remember, one can have ideological and cult-like behavior from many causes, not just religion. The kind of robotic behavior yo talk about sounds like what most Christians would call a "cult," which is not something we accept. But there can be similar ideological behavior from extreme enviornmentalists, adherents to political leaders, etc. This is a human problem, not specifically a religious one, though religion does seem to be a common area where it occurs.

You'll find religion used as an excuse for all kind of bad things. As a Christian I don't accept that, but I don't have any way to stop people claiming Christianity as an excuse for what they're doing.

 

[Tempura]

I'm just a man and my understanding is very limited, but I'll give you some of my thoughts.

You mention your friend, who thinks he can convert you, and who has become "almost like a robot". And you are holding back what you want to say to him.

I don't know either of you, but I do get the impression that you both care for each other. He might struggle too. He might think that he has to "save you", because he cares about you. And you don't lash out at him, because you care about him as well. If you could have one conversation to clear this up, it could do a lot. One man won't convert another, it's God's spirit that eventually does that, but one man can support another in his search. And you won't convert him "back" either. He hasn't left you, you haven't left him, but there's a wall between you that both of you probably contribute to. I'm hoping you both can have a good conversation, in love and patience, and clear things up.

About the homosexual issue and advices given. I'm straight, and I don't know anything about being homosexual even though I know what it means. If it is a sin, then it's no more of a sin than the sins I probably commit on daily basis. I have no right to point a finger, when I am myself blind, and Jesus gave His sacrifice for all of us. Instead of fighting amongst eachother about our sins, we should follow Christ instead. But those who come asking, are often distressed. I don't answer them often, because like I said, I don't know much about homosexuality and I especially don't like to focus on one issue and tear it apart, but when I do answer I usually remind them that all of us need Christ, none of us are better or worse than another and we should serve one another and let God lead us. I do not want to spread fear or condemnation. And some that do, probably don't even mean anything bad with it - they give a Bible verse and base their faith around that. I know this is complicated. So when things get complicated, I simplify everything and go with love, forgiveness, faith, hope, peace and an honest search for God without fear.

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

Naturally for some people "devoting life to God" means different things. For some, it means 24/7 monastery-like conditions. For others, it means just confessing your faith and thinking about these things sometimes, and for some it may be everything in between. None of these are wrong, especially when it comes from a pure heart. We have to - if not respect - tolerate the free will people have and use.

But as you know, people are people. We are often wrong, we are often straight up criminals, we are often abusers, we are often liars and anything bad - but also everything good we can be. It's the same with religion. Religion doesn't make anyone better or worse in itself - unless it's somekind of a death cult or straight up harmful without excuses. Myself, I consider to be less religious and more of a man of personal faith, but I can't deny that religion hasn't helped me to get here. I am well aware of every bad thing that has been done in the name of religion, or inside a religion, and will not deny them or make excuses for them. Take a focused group of any people with their own strong, long-lasting beliefs/ideas and traditions, and you will probably find similarities.

You said you are worried, that you don't want to feel that way about people's beliefs. I would say that free yourself from this "I must decide now, A or B!" mentality, it will only cloud your vision and restrict your ability to learn.

(I think I rambled a lot and I'm not sure if I made my point, but if I get my mind going a little better about this and come up with better answers I couldn't come up now, I'll try to remember and type it here)

 

[hedrick]

One thing to realize about this site is that if you’ve grown up in an environment like mine, it may give you a different view of people than you’ve seen before. I’m a manager at a large university, with a PhD. I grew up in mainline (i.e. fairly liberal churches). The situations described by people here, and the advice that they give, has been in some ways a shock to me. I can’t imagine Christians behaving as many posts describe their church experience. I can’t imagine Christians telling other Christians many of the things I see here.

But this is in many ways more an issue of education and social class than theology. Non-Christians in the same community as posters here are unlikely to be enlightened atheists.

This bothers me. It bothers me enough to be a challenge to my faith. Why shouldn’t having the Holy Spirit in us make a visible difference? I don’t have an easy answer.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I was born into a christian family and baptised at young age. But I've never been a christian even at a young age I could see right through it. My atheist views have grown stronger as i've entered studies as a computer engineer and that sparked my self study of physics.

Well the reason i am posting this is i don't know whether i should feel that people can believe what they want. I have a friend who was always a christian but recently I feel hes lost himself, he has become almost a robot, following the bible and its every word. He no longer does anything that isnt about god and whenever i talk to him he wants to discuss god but i can't bring myself to tell him just how much i think it is prehistoric and unbelievable. He feels he can convert me and ive just stopped talking to him because he has lost all sense of reality and it makes me sick just thinking about religion.

The reason i came to these forums was, i was asking athiests if they thought we should ignore christians and let them do as they wish. Most said they can believe what ever they want even fundamentalists. I agreed before that, that we couldn't disprove god so people should be free to believe in higher powers but ive never thought that i should support fundamentalists until the conversation with them. I then came here for a look and initially i was almost convinced Christianity was really helping and doing great things here. I then stumbled across these posts of people problems..... real life problems like being a homosexual I read some posts and the ideas being proposed, saying you must leave your partner ect as its not what god wants. I now legitimately feel sick and as i almost want to cry at how disgusting some of the advice given to people is.

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

Hello Seriously21,

First off, you might want to understand (and being you seem to be an intelligent person, I'm sure you can) that Christianity is not a Monolithic Religion. There is no guarantee that any person who takes up its ideas and practices will interpret it the same or arrive at the same paradigmatic view of life as another person. So, as is the human situation with just about any philosophical undertaking in our world, there will be a range of approaches made and applied by different individuals; some Christians will appear to operate in a more "sane" manner, while others will, despite their grasp of the Bible, still be cognitively and emotionally aloof.

The second thing you might want to understand is that American Fundamentalism shouldn't be accepted as the epitome of Christian thought. There are some things that American evangelicals and Fundamentalists have probably skewed in their attempts to apply Christianity in their lives and communities (as have a lot of forms of Christianity--not one is perfect, and for the record, I'm sure mine own has some things that could be improved as well). So, for instance, not everything that you're friend expresses will necessarily be Christianity as its original founders intended thousands of years ago (Westboro Baptist comes to mind here, as an example.)

The third thing you'll also need to understand is that some of us (perhaps only a few, unfortunately) 'believe' in the Christian Faith, not so much because we were raised that way, but because we have some academic study under our belts and, even with that, Christianity seems plausible. In fact, some of us have advanced degrees and can not only deconstruct the Christian religion philosophically and historically, but can do the same to the practice of the Sciences as well. In other words, some of us, like myself, believe because there seems to be epistemological "room" to do so, not because we were conditioned from a young age to do so, or because we are emotionally needy and require a mental crutch by which to get through life.

I could go on, but I'm sure you can already see where I'm going with this. Moreover, on the one hand, I can empathize with you in that it can be annoying to have to deal with acquaintances and friends who seem to become emotionally Loopy when they supposedly develop faith and then want to bring everyone else in on it. Indeed, not all emotional expressions evinced by Christians necessarily represent a healthy outcome of an application of faith. On the other hand, I can also highly appreciate any sense of existential hope that your friend may have acquired as an outcome of Christian faith; when one fully acquires an understanding of Christianity as it was likely intended, then it does give one a more "sunshiny" emotional response, at least at times.

Hopefully, my brief explanation will help to dissipate some of the social mystery which is irritating you at the present moment.

And in response to your final question: Yes, I feel that "chasing" Jesus Christ is an effort worthy of my life and time...

Best Wishes,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Aidan K]

The biggest problem faced by Christianity is some of the Christians themselves

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The biggest problem faced by Christianity is some of the Christians themselves

Interesting. I always thought it was the Hypocrites and False Prophets that are the biggest problem. But, I could be wrong...

 

[Aidan K]

Interesting. I always thought it was the Hypocrites and False Prophets that are the biggest problem. But, I could be wrong...

And don't many of them claim to be Christian?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

And don't many of them claim to be Christian?

Of course they do. But, we already know that not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will inherit eternal life, Aiden. [And I think I'm stopping here so as not to derail the thread. Thanks. PM me if you want to converse further on this topic.]

Peace

 

[Jesus' Follower]

Interesting. I always thought it was the Hypocrites and False Prophets that are the biggest problem. But, I could be wrong...

It can be, false profits are pretty major, however lets not blow this up.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me - Exodus 20:3

 

[seriously21]

Thank you
You all made me feel a lot better about it all. Also I would like to point out i did not argue with my friend I simply avoided conversation with him on the topic. And I am in no way saying atheists have a superior scientific knowledge or view over religious people. Personally I see a big difference between bigotry and morality. I don't want to impose judgement upon people for their beliefs as that is very hypocritical, although it has been difficult lately. I have come to accept that I don't understand the concept of faith, which makes it hard to relate at times. I know a lot of Christians who keep their judgements to themselves so don't think I'm trying to make a universal view of religion.
If i can say one thing on the gay issue I feel if there is a judgement day will god not decide his view on these people? I don't know how others think but I feel it would not be a humans job to impose the word of god on people.

 

[terryjohn]

The only one that restrians the evil in me is the Holy Spirit given to me by the grace, love and glory of God for he has set this captive free and now I am restless when men in their ignorance say there is no hope. As one of the worst sinners, I know otherwise. Seriously, would anyone want me to be without Christ, for even I was afraid of my self back then.

 

[Steven Wood]

I was born into a christian family and baptised at young age. But I've never been a christian even at a young age I could see right through it. My atheist views have grown stronger as i've entered studies as a computer engineer and that sparked my self study of physics.

Well the reason i am posting this is i don't know whether i should feel that people can believe what they want. I have a friend who was always a christian but recently I feel hes lost himself, he has become almost a robot, following the bible and its every word. He no longer does anything that isnt about god and whenever i talk to him he wants to discuss god but i can't bring myself to tell him just how much i think it is prehistoric and unbelievable. He feels he can convert me and ive just stopped talking to him because he has lost all sense of reality and it makes me sick just thinking about religion.

The reason i came to these forums was, i was asking athiests if they thought we should ignore christians and let them do as they wish. Most said they can believe what ever they want even fundamentalists. I agreed before that, that we couldn't disprove god so people should be free to believe in higher powers but ive never thought that i should support fundamentalists until the conversation with them. I then came here for a look and initially i was almost convinced Christianity was really helping and doing great things here. I then stumbled across these posts of people problems..... real life problems like being a homosexual I read some posts and the ideas being proposed, saying you must leave your partner ect as its not what god wants. I now legitimately feel sick and as i almost want to cry at how disgusting some of the advice given to people is.

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

I grew up almost like you did. I pulled away from the church myself and to the extreme my nose curled every time I heard anything about GOD. I read everything I could trying to disprove the Bible, different religions, Astrology, Physics. I got heavily into science. I will proudly say this. I am a Christian today. Nothing drastic or painful happened in my life. As a matter of fact I've had more trials and tribulations since I've dedicated my life and have become stronger for them. I do not condemn any person for the way they live their lives though when I'm asked I will tell them if they don't want to hear my opinion don't ask but honestly I'd have the same opinion whether I were Christian or not. It's my opinion to have. I do say this to you, you seem like an intelligent person. If you were to do the same search that I did. If you were to find coincidence after coincidence until you find that there are way too many of them that all point back to one spot for them all to be just one coincidence, Physics included. You would find irrefutably that there is a GOD and he is still very active today. As for devoting your life to him, absolutely yes, beyond the shadow of a doubt. What's the alternative? What else is there truly to live for and is there really anything else worth it? Everything else is fleeting, what are you going to gain from it? A moment of happiness, no real joy, nothing can truly make you happy. Money can't buy anything, you go on vacation you have little fun while it last and you can look at a photo and have a smile for a second once or twice a year when you look at it then that goes away. Love? Well if you're lucky to find what they call true love now a days and good luck with that it'll last maybe 50 years if you're lucky then comes the heart wrenching anguish when they die. You're more likely to be among the many many people to have a relationship that ends in divorce after divorce with fight and anger and anguish. There's your happy, natural life without GOD that everyone is so eager to have. Now is religion harmful? YES most definitely. Religion we have today is completely dangerous. It's not the religion we're supposed to have. All of them are wrong. Even what we call Christianity teaches many wrong things. I know I'll get trashed for saying so but honestly a lot of Christians will be among the people that Jesus will say depart from me I never knew you. If people really prayed for wisdom and truly read the Bible and didn't just swallow what they were told by the spoonful then maybe things would be different. This may be why there are so many that are turned away from the word of the Lord and offended by his teachings.

 

[jenny1972]

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

not every Christian is cruel and judgemental but the truth is that many are its very sad but not all of us are like that and anyone at all can call themselves a christian yet not really follow the basic principles of Christianity in their dealings with other people , the Bible refers to these people as wolves in sheeps clothing - Christianity is about fairness and equality and justice and what Jesus taught is to love one another and to not unfairly shun groups of people because of their sin.

Matthew 7-
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

"If i can say one thing on the gay issue I feel if there is a judgement day will god not decide his view on these people? I don't know how others think but I feel it would not be a humans job to impose the word of god on people." Amen! another sign of these wolves in sheeps clothing who claim to be christians but are not is that we are taught to not judge the sins of others yet they do ....... "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

 

[aiki]

I was born into a christian family and baptised at young age. But I've never been a christian even at a young age I could see right through it. My atheist views have grown stronger as i've entered studies as a computer engineer and that sparked my self study of physics.

Strange. Those who were once staunch atheists have found themselves converted as they came to understand the physical world around them better. It isn't a given that your experience is the normal or necessary one.

Well the reason i am posting this is i don't know whether i should feel that people can believe what they want. I have a friend who was always a christian but recently I feel hes lost himself, he has become almost a robot, following the bible and its every word. He no longer does anything that isnt about god and whenever i talk to him he wants to discuss god but i can't bring myself to tell him just how much i think it is prehistoric and unbelievable. He feels he can convert me and ive just stopped talking to him because he has lost all sense of reality and it makes me sick just thinking about religion.

Would your friend agree with your description of the character of his living? I doubt it. What would you think of him describing your life in a similar way? How would you react if he suggested that your atheism shouldn't be allowed? I'm pretty sure you'd be up-in-arms about such an idea! Yet, here you are thinking he ought to be forced to see things your way -- or at least prevented from following the dictates of his own worldview. Do you realize how fascist this is?

I then came here for a look and initially i was almost convinced Christianity was really helping and doing great things here. I then stumbled across these posts of people problems..... real life problems like being a homosexual I read some posts and the ideas being proposed, saying you must leave your partner ect as its not what god wants. I now legitimately feel sick and as i almost want to cry at how disgusting some of the advice given to people is.

Well, here's the thing: as a Christian, I believe just as strongly that they way you think and live is abhorrent and wicked. That you would deny your Maker and set yourself up as the arbiter of what people may or may not believe is in my estimation quite appalling! But you won't find me suggesting that you ought to be silenced and forced to think and believe differently! That would be wrong on many levels! A free society is one in which people can hold whatever views they like and express them without undue constraint. The moment someone tries to silence rather than engage and/or challenge a view they don't like that is the moment they embrace fascism rather than freedom. Would you be a fascist? Would you align yourself with likes of Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao? I hope not.

I just want to know do you think its really right for you to devote your life to god?
And I want to know how you can give people advice like this in their time of need and help me because i don't want to feel like this way about peoples beliefs but its honestly worrying me and im fixated on whether or not religion is harmful.

Of course I think it is right to devote my life to my Creator. Were it not for Him, I would have no life to devote! He not only made me but sustains my existence at every moment. I am completely dependent upon Him and (whether I recognize it or not) entirely at His mercy! He made me to know Him and to live in loving submission to Him. Not to live this way is to fail to fulfill the fundamental reason for my being!

Homosexuality is outside of the design God established for human sexuality. And anything that diverges from God's design and will leads to destruction and death. God's restrictions on human sexuality are in place to protect rather than oppress. So it is that when a Christian urges a homosexual to cease their perverted behaviour, it is in recognition of both the eternal and temporal dangers of homosexuality, and thus expresses a concern for the homosexual.

Sometimes religion is harmful. But this could be said of secular, atheistic and humanistic philosophies too. Much good has come from the Judeo-Christian worldview. Many of the rights and freedom you enjoy (and perhaps take for granted) in western society owe their place in it to a Judeo-Christian heritage. Hospitals, universities, countless charities and many relief organizations arose out of biblical mandates. Even science owes its early efforts in no small part to Christians who studied the universe and its processes in order to better know the One who instituted them. You may point to abuses and corruptions of the faith that led to things like the Inquisition, but on balance there is far more good than harm, I think, that has come out of the Christian religion.

Selah.

 

[Steven Wood]

not every Christian is cruel and judgemental but the truth is that many are its very sad but not all of us are like that and anyone at all can call themselves a christian yet not really follow the basic principles of Christianity in their dealings with other people , the Bible refers to these people as wolves in sheeps clothing - Christianity is about fairness and equality and justice and what Jesus taught is to love one another and to not unfairly shun groups of people because of their sin.

Matthew 7-
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

"If i can say one thing on the gay issue I feel if there is a judgement day will god not decide his view on these people? I don't know how others think but I feel it would not be a humans job to impose the word of god on people." Amen! another sign of these wolves in sheeps clothing who claim to be christians but are not is that we are taught to not judge the sins of others yet they do ....... "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

The fact at hand is this. This is some of the arguments used to turn people away from GOD. The misunderstanding and misuse of the word along with people that call themselves "Christians" using it however they want to offend others and make themselves feel less than. Just like the woman about to be stoned for adultery when Jesus said let you who without sin cast the first stone the passage of the Plank means the same. We are saved by one and only one way. Saved by Grace through Faith. Other than Jesus, The works and deeds of the greatest man who has ever lived would be as filthy rags (I don't want to be explicit so I won't explain what filthy rags are). What I am getting at is simply in the eyes of GOD sin is sin is sin and this is where we get off topic. Yes it says in the Bible that a man should not lay with another man but people also forget the oh so easily forgettable part that in the law mind you it says to obey the Sabbath, don't bear false witness, don't covet your neighbor's wife. And a step further, Jesus said in the New testament that the law says not to kill but he says if you call someone a fool which meant if you killed their spirit or hurt their feelings it was the same thing. Sin is sin. We are saved if we truly asked to be saved. We're meant to try to lead other to Christ not by condemning them and pointing out what they do wrong. GOD will open their hearts when time comes, open their eyes and let it be known to them what needs to be changed when and if he wants them to change. We spend so much time thinking we're know what's going on and frankly I don't know anyone that was there when GOD decided to create us. I'm not smart enough to have anything figured out. I pray everyday to get out of my own way, to be blessed enough not rely on my own intelligence because if I do, I'm in trouble. The ONLY person that GOD turns away is the person that turns away from GOD over and over, And although he is loving and merciful he is also just and at some point it will be too late. Hopefully, we won't let the arguing that hurts so many needlessly distract us.