i couldnt find any topics about lordship salvation then i seen the search button

[mndgn.j]

lordship salvation vs easy believeism

 

[d taylor]

Grace Evangelical Society

What is Lordship Salvation?​

Lordship Salvation for Dummies – Grace Evangelical Society​

 

[mndgn.j]

Grace Evangelical Society
What is Lordship Salvation?

Lordship Salvation for Dummies – Grace Evangelical Society​

thats some good stuff right there

 

[d taylor]

thats some good stuff right there

Good site here if you want to learn about free grace and their views on the theology of Lordship salvation.

Grace Evangelical Society

 

[Soyeong]

lordship salvation vs easy believeism

The issue is that there can be any number of reasons for obeying God's law other than in order to earn it as a wage, so there is a significant difference between saying that our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law and saying that our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law in order to earn it as a wage. While there are many verses that deny the later, such as Romans 3:28, Romans 4:5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, and Galatians 2:21, there are are also many verses that support the former, such as Romans 2:6-7, Romans 2:13, Ephesians 2:10, Titus 2:11-14, Galatians 3:26-29, James 2:17-24, Matthew 7:21-23, and Matthew 19:17, so there must be a reason that our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, such as faith insofar as Romans 3:31 says that our faith upholds God's law.

My experience is that the critics of Lordship Salvation generally try to use verses that speak against earning our salvation to counter it, though that is not the claim of its proponents. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation by obeying God's law, the gift of getting to live in obedience to God's law is inherently part of the concept of Jesus saving us from living in disobedience to God's law. The proponents of Easy Believism incorrectly infer from the fact that we don't earn our salvation by our obedience to God's law that our salvation therefore does not require us to choose to live in obedience to it and they misunderstand believing something as just mentally affirming it to be true when biblically our actions express what we believe to be true about the nature of who God is, which is why there are many verses that connect our faith in God with our obedience to it, such as in Revelation 14:12, where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. When we do what is righteous in obedience to God's law, we are expressing, experiencing, loving, believing in, and testifying about God's righteousness.

In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, in Psalms 119:160, the sum of God's word is truth, in John 1:14, the word of God became flesh and dwelt among us, and in John 14:6, Jesus said that he is the way, the truth, and the life, so he was claiming to be the living embodiment of God's law, which was evidenced by living in sinless obedience to it. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the exact expression of God's nature, so he is the personification of the nature of God, or in other words, he is the physical manifestation of God's law, so when we correctly understand the nature of who he is, then we will recognize that obedience to the law of which he is the living embodiment is the way to believe in the nature of who he is, or in other words, the way to believe in him.

 

[Soyeong]

Double post.

 

[ozso]

I posted a thread about it some time ago. The best Lordship Salavation teachers you'll find on youtube in my opinion are John MacArthur and Steve Gregg. Bob Wilken as already posted is probably the best one to present the Free Grace side. There's also Zane Hodges and Charles Ryrie.

Lordship Salavation is basically Catholicism. I've had some long discussions with a Catholic on the topic of Free Grace and OSAS and everything he said against it was pretty identical to LS.

 

[Soyeong]

I posted a thread about it some time ago. The best Lordship Salavation teachers you'll find on youtube in my opinion are John MacArthur and Steve Gregg. Bob Wilken as already posted is probably the best one to present the Free Grace side. There's also Zane Hodges and Charles Ryrie.

Lordship Salavation is basically Catholicism. I've had some long discussions with a Catholic on the topic of Free Grace and OSAS and everything he said against it was pretty identical to LS.

I believe in Lordship Salvation, but am very much not a Catholic.

In regard to free grace, the issue is that the content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where them doing the work of driving it does not detract from the fact that the opportunity to drive it was completely given to them as a gift. In a similar, the content of God's gift of eternal life is itself the experience of knowing God and Jesus (John 17:3), and God's law is His instructions for how we can get to have that experience, not for how to earn eternal life as a wage.

The Hebrew word "yada" refer to experiential, relational, or intimate knowledge, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life by grace through faith. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken God's law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in expressing these and other aspects of God's nature in obedience to His law is the way to yada Him, and Jesus, who is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). Furthermore, in 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey his commands are liars, and in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor know him.

In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God and he was a righteous man, so he was declared righteous by grace through faith by the same means as everyone else, so God's law was not given as an alternative an unattainable means of earning our salvation as a wage when a perfectly good means of salvation by grace through faith was already in place. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience of faith, and in Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God graciously teaching us to experience these works in obedience to His law is itself the content of His gift of saving us from living in transgression of His law.

 

[ozso]

The whole thing boils down to monergism vs synergism.

Monergism teaches that once you put belief and faith in Christ, you are saved, period, end of story. That your salvation is 100% in the hands of God and he won't let go of you no matter what.

Synergism teaches that you have to contribute to your salvation through commitment, obedience and perseverance. That once you are saved, the evidence of your salvation is in the fruit you produce.

Lordship Salavation is synergism. And synergism has also always been the teaching of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox church. Monergism didn't really come about until the Protestant reformation.

 

[Soyeong]

The whole thing boils down to monergism vs synergism.

Monergism teaches that once you put belief and faith in Christ, you are saved, period, end of story. That your salvation is 100% in the hands of God and he won't let go of you no matter what.

Synergism teaches that you have to contribute to your salvation through commitment, obedience and perseverance. That once you are saved, the evidence of your salvation is in the fruit you produce.

Lordship Salavation is synergism. And synergism has also always been the teaching of the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox church. Monergism didn't really come about until the Protestant reformation.

The issue is that there are past, present, and future aspects of our salvation, so we have been saved from the penalty of our sins (Ephesians 2:8), we are being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10).

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not being saved as the result of having done those works and we do not do those works as the result or fruit of having been saved, but rather it is evidence that we are presently being saved, so God graciously teaching us to obey His law for how to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing those works, which is ongoing in the present. Furthermore, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself both to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so this verse is describing Jesus as accomplishing both a past and a present aspect of our salvation, and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what he accomplished on the cross (Acts 21:20). While we do not contribute to our salvation in the sense that there is part of our salvation that we need to earn as a wage, or in the sense that what Jesus did was not enough, testifying about what Jesus accomplished on the cross by being trained by grace to become zealous for doing those works in obedience to God's law does involve our full participation.

Our salvation would be incomplete if we were only forgiven of the penalty of our sins and restored to how we were before we had sinned, but were not also being made in the present tense to be like Christ in expressing God's nature through our obedience to His law. Again, our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to it is inherently part of the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from living in disobedience to it, and it would contradictory for being saved from living in transgression of God's law to happen before or after living in obedience to it because we can't be saved from living in transgression of God's law while we are still choosing to live in disobedience to it and we wouldn't need to be saved from living in transgression of God's law while we are already choosing to live in obedience to it.