I Am The Way..... To Heaven

[ToBeLoved]

John 16
.....
4 I have told you this so that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. "I did not tell this from the beginning because I was with you.
5 But now I go to him who sent me, and none of you asks me, 'Where are you going? "
6 But because I have said that your hearts are filled with sadness.

To go to heaven, we must pass this life is like crossing to the other side of a river, it shows that death no longer exists, Jesus overcame death did not flinch, he never renounced his mission, and Moses opened a way through the waters of the sea, - Jesus opened the way to reach God.

I'm not sure what you mean by "To go to heaven, we must pass this life is like crossing to the other side of a river, it shows that death no longer exists"?

Death, physical death existed before Jesus and still exists after Jesus.

What Jesus did was that Jesus conquered death. Not the physical process of human being dying, but the spiritual death of all man.

The consequences of sin is death. The death is a spiritual death. The death of man without being reconciled back to God and remaining in their sin state. That is spiritual death. That is why Jesus died. Sinless as a sacrifice for our sin.

Jesus conquered sin! We are able to be spiritually alive. We are 'born-again" into spiritual communion with God. We now have forgiveness of sin. Reconciliation back to a holy God through His Son Jesus Christ who conquered sin and the spiritual death state that we were in when we were in sin.

Jesus is able to make us spiritually alive by forgiving our sin.


I don't know how to reconcile that with your words above which seem to be talking about physical death.

 

[ToBeLoved]

John 16
.....
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth to your advantage that I go away; because if I do not go, do not come to you the Paraclete; but if I go, I will send him:

Therefore, Jesus must return to where it came from, if not returned for fear of death, his mission had failed and the Paraclete will not come.

What does that quote above mean to you?

Jesus is saying that He must die for the sins of mankind, but that it will be to his apostles advantage that Jesus goes and dies on the cross. Because unless Jesus dies on the cross and ressurects, he is not able to send the Holy Spirit to them. The Holy Spirit is what each Christian receives when they are born-again.

What does the his mission had failed mean? I don't read that at all in the verse. I only read that Jesus must die on the cross before He can send the Holy Spirit to them.

 

[ToBeLoved]

John 16

8 and when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin, concerning justice and concerning judgment;

9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;

Believing in Jesus is listening to his word and put it into practice, "Blessed is he who hears my word and practice, because otherwise, we can not do the will of God. Then, thus no longer takes into account our sin - but if our decision is to continue living in our mistakes, discard salvation and our sins are still with us -

This is not those two verses John 16:8-9 are saying.

The one who will convict the world is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts the heart of the born-again Christian as to their sin. If the born-again Christian listens to the Holy Spirit's conviction than usually that person will begin to change their behavior. That is one of the things that the Holy Spirit does, He leads us in righteousness through convicting us or showing us our sin.

You said:
Believing in Jesus is listening to his word and put it into practice,

The only people that the Holy Spirit judges and convicts are Christians. It is not a process of judging to say your wrong or your bad, it's a process of trying to sanctify us and make us more like our Father in heaven. That is a good process, that is not a negative judgement, but a positive teaching us.

________________________________________________________________________

You said:
but if our decision is to continue living in our mistakes, discard salvation and our sins are still with us

This statement is not true. Our Salvation is a GIFT from Jesus. WE CANNOT take away our own Salvation. Our Salvation is not ours to take away. Our Salvation is Jesus Christ's. He decides. We cannot discard it or loose it. Jesus tells us that He will always forgive our sin.

1 John 1:9
" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Notice that it is HE who is faithful and HE who is just. It is not about us, it is about Jesus.

It DOES NOT say if we.... it says He.

Notice also that He purifies us from all unrighteousness. Again not us, but Him.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Dt. 30 - 15 now set before you life and happiness, death and misery.
16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving the Lord your God and fulfill his commands, his laws and commandments, then you will live, you multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land where now you are entering to possess it.

Dt. 30 - 15 now set before you life and happiness, death and misery.
16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving the Lord your God and fulfill his commands, his laws and commandments, then you will live, you multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land where now you are entering to possess it.

Deuteronomy was written by Moses and this is the Old Testament when the Israelite's were still under the Law. This has nothing specifically to do with Jesus and was before Jesus and before Salvation by grace.

So, in your post your mixing the Old Testament Law of Moses with the New Testament and Salvation by grace through Jesus Christ. Can't do that. They are two totally different things. After Jesus death, we are no longer held to the Law of Moses. We have salvation by grace through Jesus.

This is why I think you are so confused.

In the Old Testament they were under Mosaic Law and they sacrificed animals and used the animal blood to atone for sin.

In the New Testament since Christ's death, we are under grace and we are sanctified by the blood of Jesus for our sin.

You need to remember that - Old Testament was under the Law - New Testament under grace by Jesus Christ

 

[ToBeLoved]

10 in regard to righteousness, because I go to My Father, and I no longer see;

Who can restore the damage and the crimes they commit? - Who can restore life to the dead? - Because that is true justice. and it does, is God, our Father in Heaven.

11 concerning judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

The prince of this world is man, when Jesus was resurrected, let free the two roads, Dt, 15 I have set before you life and happiness, death and misery. That's our opinion, we freely choose which path to take. "Whoever believes in me has eternal life and abundance, and whoever does not believe is condemned himself.

12 I have much to tell you, but now you can not bear it.

Then, you jump back to John 16 again. Which is the New Testament. The New Testament is under salvation by grace in Jesus Christ.

10 in regard to righteousness, because I go to My Father, and I no longer see;

Your interpretation of this verse is not correct.

This is again about Jesus who is going to the cross and He is telling them that they will not see Him anymore.

This is what MAtthew Henrey's Commentary says about these verses:

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
John 16:7-15
"Christ's departure was necessary to the Comforter's coming. Sending the Spirit was to be the fruit of Christ's death, which was his going away. His bodily presence could be only in one place at one time, but his Spirit is every where, in all places, at all times, wherever two or three are gathered together in his name. See here the office of the Spirit, first to reprove, or to convince. Convincing work is the Spirit's work; he can do it effectually, and none but he. It is the method the Holy Spirit takes, first to convince, and then to comfort. The Spirit shall convince the world, of sin; not merely tell them of it."

Sometimes we need to be careful how we are reading and interpreting scripture. See this page http://biblehub.com/john/16-10.htm Notice that the scripture is listed in Parralell that is multiple translations so you can compare. Also notice to the right of the page are several commentaries, just like the Matthew Henry Commentary I listed above.

 

[7angel]

This is not those two verses John 16:8-9 are saying.

The one who will convict the world is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts the heart of the born-again Christian as to their sin. If the born-again Christian listens to the Holy Spirit's conviction than usually that person will begin to change their behavior. That is one of the things that the Holy Spirit does, He leads us in righteousness through convicting us or showing us our sin.

You said:
Believing in Jesus is listening to his word and put it into practice,

The only people that the Holy Spirit judges and convicts are Christians. It is not a process of judging to say your wrong or your bad, it's a process of trying to sanctify us and make us more like our Father in heaven. That is a good process, that is not a negative judgement, but a positive teaching us.

________________________________________________________________________

You said:
but if our decision is to continue living in our mistakes, discard salvation and our sins are still with us

This statement is not true. Our Salvation is a GIFT from Jesus. WE CANNOT take away our own Salvation. Our Salvation is not ours to take away. Our Salvation is Jesus Christ's. He decides. We cannot discard it or loose it. Jesus tells us that He will always forgive our sin.

1 John 1:9
" If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Notice that it is HE who is faithful and HE who is just. It is not about us, it is about Jesus.

It DOES NOT say if we.... it says He.

Notice also that He purifies us from all unrighteousness. Again not us, but Him.

And, as you understand the next reading?

Matthew 25

The Final Judgment

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, jthen he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him kwill be gathered lall the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’


41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into leternal life.”

 

[ToBeLoved]

And, as you understand the next reading?

Matthew 25

The Final Judgment

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, jthen he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him kwill be gathered lall the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’


41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into leternal life.”

This is talking about when Jesus comes and separates those who are Christ's own from those that are not in Christ's.

 

[ToBeLoved]

And, as you understand the next reading?

Matthew 25

The Final Judgment

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, jthen he will sit on his glorious throne.
32 Before him kwill be gathered lall the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’


41 “Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into leternal life.”

You didn't answer about your completely inaccurate translation of John 16 or why you mixed two old covenant (Mosaic Law) with the New Covenant (Salvation by grace by the blood of Christ). You cannot post what verses mean when they are not even in the correct dispensation, and you totally missed the entire meaning of almost every verse that you put your own understanding/explanation for. How is that good to mislead with scripture?

 

[joshuanazar]

You didn't answer about your completely inaccurate translation of John 16 or why you mixed two old covenant (Mosaic Law) with the New Covenant (Salvation by grace by the blood of Christ). You cannot post what verses mean when they are not even in the correct dispensation, and you totally missed the entire meaning of almost every verse that you put your own understanding/explanation for. How is that good to mislead with scripture?

If you were to look throughout the earlier posts you would see a lot of problems. How do you deal with this? Obviously my first desire when seeing that the truth that is in my posts are just being is to dust of my feet and depart. But then I start thinking about all the people that will hear this erroneous doctrine and I want to do something. What do you suggest?

 

[7angel]

You think that my explanation is not correct ......

I tell the truth, that you do not like, but I do not seek their approval, I just tell the truth

 

[ToBeLoved]

If you were to look throughout the earlier posts you would see a lot of problems. How do you deal with this? Obviously my first desire when seeing that the truth that is in my posts are just being is to dust of my feet and depart. But then I start thinking about all the people that will hear this erroneous doctrine and I want to do something. What do you suggest?

I just go through the post and quote the poster and then correct the understanding verse by verse. Kind of what I did in this thread earlier.

I like you believe that this forum when read by non-members can be a way of teaching. I almost always correct eroneous doctrine, because first and foremost it is God's Word and it belongs to Him to be presented as it is actually written and to be used in the way it was written.

We know that scripture is to be used for correction. The verse is not coming to me but scripture is important to get right.

 

[joshuanazar]

But to constantly correct everything when they will just put more up for you to correct?

 

[ToBeLoved]

But to constantly correct everything when they will just put more up for you to correct?

Sometimes I will just say. "That's not true. Do you have any bible verses that prove that?"

It depends on the subject for me sometimes too. Some topics are more important than others.

 

[joshuanazar]

I can see that a misunderstanding on the nature of angels is no where near as dangerous as a misunderstanding about grace.