I am not Christian.

[doubting]

I grew up in a Christian home. I "accepted" Christ at age 10. I do not think it was real though because I was rejecting God & church by my later teenager years. For a while in college I even said I was atheist (although I don't think I was).

I've tried to make Christianity work over the years since then. I was baptized again at 31. Sometimes I've considered myself to be Christian and it sort of worked but I've always felt conflicted with religion and I've always felt like I was not really a true Christian.

At 51, I find myself at a point where I have decided that I am not Christian, probably never have been one and likely never will be.

I've come to realize why I think so.. There are personal reasons (i.e. things about myself) and theological reasons why I decided I was not really Christian....

The personal reasons:

1) I've never felt 'saved'. Christians say that if you are saved you *know* it for sure and I think it makes sense that you would. But I've never really felt like I was saved. Nor have I ever felt like I have a "personal relationship" with Christ.

1a) I've never been different as a Christian vs before I was baptized. My church had a testimony event where they asked each of us to think of how we were changed from before and after becoming Christian (and share it). I could not think of a single way that I was different before and after. My conclusion was that either being Christian doesn't really mean anything or I'm not a Christian.

2) I have sometimes loved my sin. Like everyone has, I had temptations as a Christian. Sometimes I did not give in but far too often, I sinned and (the most important part...), I gave in to it wilfully. I think a true Christian would always put up a struggle against sin even though they will sometimes lose the fiight. Sometimes I did not even try.

From a theological standpoint:

1) I cannot in good conscience say that I believe the Bible is the Word of God. There are too many things I am unwilling to accept as true in it. I do not think a Christian can not believe in the Bible.

 

[Criada]

I can relate to so much of what you post here, brother.
The question I think you need to answer is, do you want to be a Christian? A lot of people who are brought up as Christians later fall away, and are quite content to do so.
The fact that you are posting this here makes me feel that you don't want to lose your faith, but don't know how to believe any more. I've been in that place so many times, it begins to feel like home!
And yet, as Philip K Dick put it:
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

And for me, how ever many times I find myself doubting, God doesn't go away. Sometimes I wish He would, but most of the time I am very glad that He doesn't.
And I think that He is still working in your life, despite the doubts and uncertainty.

 

[the.Sheepdog]

Amen Criada. It all starts with do you believe in any Gods at all?

 

[Holy Moly]

The personal reasons:

1) I've never felt 'saved'. Christians say that if you are saved you *know* it for sure and I think it makes sense that you would. But I've never really felt like I was saved. Nor have I ever felt like I have a "personal relationship" with Christ.

Placing doubt in one's mind is what satan is good at. He get's alot of happiness and joy from keeping us detached from GOD.

Pray to GOD for a better personal relationship with him. Don't give up talking to GOD.

I can understand what you are going through here as I have had the same type of feelings in my life. I just refuse to give in to satan and I keep the door open to GOD.

1a) I've never been different as a Christian vs before I was baptized. My church had a testimony event where they asked each of us to think of how we were changed from before and after becoming Christian (and share it). I could not think of a single way that I was different before and after. My conclusion was that either being Christian doesn't really mean anything or I'm not a Christian.

Being a Christian isn't everything in life and feeling different doesn't always happen either.
Even though your Church meant well, sometimes there motives aren't in our best interests.
When it comes to sharing our feelings one can feel forced to say .. yes I feel different just to go along with the crowd. This can lead to confusion and resentment in the long run. It's possible even though you felt no difference, you could be feeling very confused with how this christian thing goes.

Ask GOD for guidance in your search.

2) I have sometimes loved my sin. Like everyone has, I had temptations as a Christian. Sometimes I did not give in but far too often, I sinned and (the most important part...), I gave in to it wilfully. I think a true Christian would always put up a struggle against sin even though they will sometimes lose the fiight. Sometimes I did not even try.

We all fall short of the glory.
Temptation is around us all the time. We are sinners saved by grace.
I don't care who you are, you will be tempted by something in life.

When you feel like giving into your temptations and you don't even try to turn away from them, is the time you need to address GOD and PRAY like you've never prayed before.
I realize that there will be days this might work and days it won't. You take the good with the bad and focus on the good days you were able to turn away from satans grasp.

From a theological standpoint:

1) I cannot in good conscience say that I believe the Bible is the Word of God. There are too many things I am unwilling to accept as true in it. I do not think a Christian can not believe in the Bible.

Well, I don't know of a person who hasn't questioned the Bible or something in it.

Myself, I over analyze the Bible and get into trouble that way. I end up confused and upset reading it.


Right now Iam willing to say for my own self, that the Bible was inspired by God and written by man.

I believe that our questions concerning the Bible will be answered by GOD either in this life or after death.

GOD BLESS YOU!

 

[bluelime2]

The question I think you need to answer is, do you want to be a Christian? A lot of people who are brought up as Christians later fall away, and are quite content to do so.
The fact that you are posting this here makes me feel that you don't want to lose your faith, but don't know how to believe any more.

I was thinking something similar.

 

[Mayflower1]

I grew up in a Christian home. I "accepted" Christ at age 10. I do not think it was real though because I was rejecting God & church by my later teenager years. For a while in college I even said I was atheist (although I don't think I was).

I've tried to make Christianity work over the years since then. I was baptized again at 31. Sometimes I've considered myself to be Christian and it sort of worked but I've always felt conflicted with religion and I've always felt like I was not really a true Christian.

At 51, I find myself at a point where I have decided that I am not Christian, probably never have been one and likely never will be.

I've come to realize why I think so.. There are personal reasons (i.e. things about myself) and theological reasons why I decided I was not really Christian....

The personal reasons:

1) I've never felt 'saved'. Christians say that if you are saved you *know* it for sure and I think it makes sense that you would. But I've never really felt like I was saved. Nor have I ever felt like I have a "personal relationship" with Christ. yes, the Bible is in 1 John 5:13 says, "These things I have written to you, so that you may KNOW that you have eternal life." I love how it says you can know, that I don't have to doubt whether I'm going to Heaven or not. Salvation is not a feeling. Salvation is trusting in Jesus Christ as your savior, that He died on the cross for Your sins, and rose again after three days, asking Him to forgive you of your sins. sometimes, it is easy to feel like you are not, if you are walking in the flesh and not the spirit. a personal relationship is not just having a knowledge of God, it is really getting to know God.

1a) I've never been different as a Christian vs before I was baptized. My church had a testimony event where they asked each of us to think of how we were changed from before and after becoming Christian (and share it). I could not think of a single way that I was different before and after. My conclusion was that either being Christian doesn't really mean anything or I'm not a Christian. for about 6 years, even though I was a Christian, I couldn't think of a way I was different. In fact, it was worse. My life was plagued with self-injury, depression, and was living a life-style that wasn't something you would call a walk with God. and it is true. Christianity really doesn't mean anything if we have nothing to show for it.... yes, salvation is by grace alone, but to have had it and lived for myself was selfish.

2) I have sometimes loved my sin. Like everyone has, I had temptations as a Christian. Sometimes I did not give in but far too often, I sinned and (the most important part...), I gave in to it wilfully. I think a true Christian would always put up a struggle against sin even though they will sometimes lose the fiight. Sometimes I did not even try. I willfully gave into sin many times and loved it. these are things I look back and am convicted for now, but back then no. Even when I started going against sin, I wasn't convicted about it for a long time. I just started going against it, because I knew it grieved God when I sinned.

From a theological standpoint:

1) I cannot in good conscience say that I believe the Bible is the Word of God. There are too many things I am unwilling to accept as true in it. I do not think a Christian can not believe in the Bible. yes, a Christian believes in the Bible as the Word of God and whatever it says, is true. if you like, here is a good website to research this a little more. ]Christians Home Page

may I ask you a question? are you searching for God? are you trying to find proof that He is there? Because He is, and He loves you so deeply. Even though you don't feel Him, He is always with you and loves you.

 

[doubting]

Thank you for your replies. I would have responded sooner but I hadn't checked back here in a while. And in general, any replies from me will likely be slow in coming but I will check in from time to time..

Amen Criada. It all starts with do you believe in any Gods at all?

I do believe that we are created by a creator. I think it is very unlikely that the universe & life just originated from nothingness by random chance. And so I believe we are created. However, I believe this because of the complexity and apparent design of life processes, not because I have 'faith' in God.

It is important to understand the distinction of believing in God because of evidence vs believing in God because of faith. I do not put much credibility in 'faith'. That aspect of me is different than religious people. I prefer using logic/reason/evidence as much as possible for the basis of what I accept as truth. I do not believe that assuming (or asserting) that something is true is a good way to discern truth.

That I do not 'believe in faith' is, I think, at the root of my conflict with Christianity (or any religion for that matter).

I do recognize however that one cannot entirely escape from faith based beliefs. I would if I could but I can't. And so my own beliefs are not entirely free of faith. However, I view faith as being a sometimes necessary evil, not as something that is inherently good and so I reject faith based 'truth' as much as I practically can..

Why did I come here? I'm not entirely sure why. Part of me likes Christians, part of me dislikes them. Christians are generally decent from a personal standpoint and I did enjoy the social aspect of associating with them at church. I think I miss that but I don't think I should be involved with them without really believing the same things (or close to it) that they do.

Do I want to be Christian? I also have mixed feelings on that. Part of me wants to be part of Christians but it causes a lot of conflict (and eventually hostility) within me when I try. So, my answer is no.

 

[Mayflower1]

this might be a good place for you to post some of your thoughts. you might find some of the answers you are looking for. praying for you doubting!

Exploring Christianity - Christian Forums

 

[Johnnz]

You need your thinking challenged at a level it hasn't been. If you want some godo material you can download some very good material for listening at veritas.org or bethinking.org

John
NZ

 

[redeemerlives]

I understand what you are going through. Part of me wants to be a Christian and part of me wants to just be me. The hardest part of becoming a Christian, though, is having to give up many of the things you once liked to do, maybe even not to have certain friendships. Most of the people I deal with are into many non-Christian things, and I spend time talking to many of these people. I want to go out to a party or to go have some alcohol in a bar, but then when you become a Christian, you might still do the same things, but you would wonder what the point of it is.

I had hope for great things, for happiness, for so much more than what I am experiencing, until one day God came into my life and started to challenge those hopeful feelings. Over time, I have been losing hope, and been confused about where to take the next step. I have been challenged in such a strange way now, to try to find meaning to life. Best of luck to you for your situation as well.

 

[Christos Anesti]

I've never felt 'saved'. Christians say that if you are saved you *know* it for sure

I disagree strongly with that. How you "feel" is not of utmost importance. To contemplate your own sinfulness in fear of the dread Judgment of Christ is not a bad thing at all. It should also be noted that salvation is a lifelong process. To speak of being saved in the past tense as if that is all there is and you have now arrived is an improper way to view things.

I've never been different as a Christian vs before I was baptized.

That takes constant struggle and prayer. As much as we might want an overnight change it might not work out that way. One can't rest on the fact that they were baptized and expect that to make any sort of work on oneself unnecessary. We have to run the race to the end and work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[doubting]

I disagree strongly with that. How you "feel" is not of utmost importance. To contemplate your own sinfulness in fear of the dread Judgment of Christ is not a bad thing at all. It should also be noted that salvation is a lifelong process. To speak of being saved in the past tense as if that is all there is and you have now arrived is an improper way to view things.


But Christians commonly say that if you are truly saved you *know* it and that you have no doubt of it. And I think that makes sense.

But I've never really felt like, or known, I was saved. Always had doubts about that and so my conclusion was that since I doubt I am saved, then I am probably not.

 

[Johnnz]

Feeling is not always a useful word. When we 'know' something that can be something founded on knowledge - when you know the right answer for a mathematical problem, to just an inner sense of confidence - something 'clicks', or an experience that spills out into our feelings and sometimes our intellect as well. Many people lack some certainty in their relationship with God because they have never been given a basis for any belief that adequately meets their own sense of certainty.

John
NZ

 

[redeemerlives]

We all as humans have different opinions of God, so that's why we do not really know or feel who or what God is. We each were born to think and act a certain way, based on our personalities. Some of us may claim to discover God and others of us may not. I've wondered if bad things that keep happening are because of God or because of Satan. I had been saved earlier in my life and went to church recently again and now I'm not even sure if I'm saved either because I keep having problems in my life that do not reach an end.

It seems like once you get saved and go to church a lot, life gets tougher. I've lost a lot in the process, even on a week when I went to church twice. So I ask if going to church is going to help me in the long run. The difficulties of my life drew me back to church, and yet my life got even worse when I went back to church. Life is a little better when I don't go to services, but I wonder if that's reality or just an illusion I'm experiencing.

I prayed about certain situations to go well in my life, yet they became much more difficult to solve in the process. I'm going to live a very difficult life, no matter whether I go to church or not, trying to live everyday. I'm trying to figure out if there is a way to solve the problems brought into my life or if they are not going to go away. The hardest part is possibly having to do things that I will not like, because I like to be social and having fun and moving around.

I think the devil's trying to temptate me to not go to church. Should I go or just practice christianity by being a more morally good person and by talking more with the christians I know already? My view most of my life has been to be as good as you can without really going to service, but I found out I have to be careful too. However, I get temptated into getting bored and depressed on the days that I am going to church because me going reminds me of all the problems in my life.

 

[plumsink]

The personal reasons:

1) I've never felt 'saved'. Christians say that if you are saved you *know* it for sure and I think it makes sense that you would. But I've never really felt like I was saved. Nor have I ever felt like I have a "personal relationship" with Christ.

You should ask yourself first whether you even really want a relationship with God. I mean really really want it. If you don't, then you aren't a Christian, even if you were raised that way. Sometimes one of the most dangerous things you can do is assume you are Christian by default, because of your culture or your parents. It's not inheritable. I think it is better to come out in the open and be agnostic or whatever than to cling to a belief you don't actually believe in. Your best chances of being a Christian someday in that case are to accept that you aren't one now.

1a) I've never been different as a Christian vs before I was baptized. My church had a testimony event where they asked each of us to think of how we were changed from before and after becoming Christian (and share it). I could not think of a single way that I was different before and after. My conclusion was that either being Christian doesn't really mean anything or I'm not a Christian.

Baptism in a church means nothing in itself. It is an outward sign of an inward transformation: it is the inward transformation that is important.

2) I have sometimes loved my sin. Like everyone has, I had temptations as a Christian. Sometimes I did not give in but far too often, I sinned and (the most important part...), I gave in to it wilfully. I think a true Christian would always put up a struggle against sin even though they will sometimes lose the fiight. Sometimes I did not even try.

Yes, the Holy Spirit resists and fights sin within us. Sometimes we lose the fight, but if the fight never even happens then the Holy Spirit either isn't inside you or is suppressed by a hardened heart. That at least sometimes you did fight, is a good sign I would think.

From a theological standpoint:

1) I cannot in good conscience say that I believe the Bible is the Word of God. There are too many things I am unwilling to accept as true in it. I do not think a Christian can not believe in the Bible.

I am a Christian and I don't think the Bible is the literal word of God. My belief is that you have to take the New Testament seriously but not literally, and I take the Old Testament much less literally than the New.

As far as the value of "feeling" goes, feeling is a kind of perception. It is a perception of reality connected to how that reality affects me. God knows that we need reassurance as new Christians so He sends it in the form of feelings. There comes a time though when we have to ignore our feelings for the sake of something more permanent. When you love someone, you don't just love them when you like them but all the time, and it is the same with God. We should love God even when we cannot feel that we like Him, because those sorts of feelings come and go. Our relationship to God is hopefully more permanent than that.

Peace friend.