I am confused.

[Rafael]

I am very confused about predestination. There are a lot of verses in the Bible that support it and a lot that don't. Such as : "Behold I stand at the door and knock whosoever opens I will come in and dine with him and he with me." This verse shows that He knocks to everyone's doors and he wait to see if they choose to open. "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." This verse shows that any can believe.


I do not know of any at the moment but I know there are quite a few verses that support predestination.


A few questions about it.

1. So if predestination is true then God withholds His grace from some and makes others accept? I'm sure I'm wrong on that but that is why I make the thread.

2. Didn't Jesus die for the whole world at not only certain people? Then why does the calling only come to some?

3. If God predestined all to happen does that mean He predestined us to sin? Wouldn't that make Him the author of sin?

4. If when God shows His grace to one that person is predestined to accept and thereby doesn't do it by free-will?

5. If God planned it and all does that mean we don't have free will?

6. If God's grace is irresistable to all then why doesn't He give to all and not just a few?

7. And if God predestined some to be saved why do we preach? Why are there preachers if predestination is true?

As you can see I am quite confused. I was always taught that predestination isn't true but if it is I will accept it. I don't want to believe the wrong one but I do know that this is an in-house debate and doesn't matter in eternity.

So if anyone can answer my questions I would greatly appretiate it.

Here is a key to help in understanding predestination. God is omniscient and sees the beginning to the end at the same moment. Now roll that around in your mind a second or two.....He stands outside of time and views it completely different from us. We are caught in time and the linear effects it has on our perceptions. God saw beforehand what would happend when a choice was given to Adam and Eve and planned from the beginning for the lamb that was slain before the foundation......You see, God had to create what He knew would be evil, such as satan, in order that He might be known. To understand this: how would you know that there was light if there was no darkness? Or in two dimensional terms, when painting a picture, you have to use black to give outline and definition to the object you want to portray. What color is always used to outline and define an object - black. God wanted to be known, and He wants fellowship that is not like a robot. He saw all this from beginning to end and was able to use all things in between, including evil, to work out right for those that love Him and are the called according to His purpose. Being the genesis of all things, He knows how to create and do the things that make our heads hurt just to understand a little of it. Think of the worst sin man commited and the result God made from it in the crucifixtion of Christ and the resurrection to new life and salvation for all of mankind.
We see that man has conceived of time travel and changing things in history by stories and novels of fiction, but God actually has even greater power than that, and there are probably many more dimensions that we are aware of or have imagined. He, God, is almost too great for words.

Psa 121:3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

1Sa 2:9 He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

Job 23:11 My foot hath held his steps, his way have I kept, and not declined.

Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

 

[iac]

But wouldn't that make Him the author of sin? If He wished to be known and to be known He would've had to make sin... well that one to me seems to make Him the author of sin which in the Bible it sasy He isn't. Please explain.





Another question.

People who are dead have no power at all to wake themselves up and so if we are spiritually dead does that mean we have no power to accept Christ? If God has to wake us up for us does that kind of take away our free-will? And if He does have to wake us up why doesn't He wake everybody up?

 

[endure]

thats the question i ask. and thats why i dont beleive he dictates our fate or controls us to any certain end.
becuase he doesnt create sin for his pleasure and place it on people, and he doesnt desire people to go to hell.

but uhmm, the last question,
im sure raphe has an asnwer but just to throw this in there, if he doesnt mind.
the bible does say God is the creator of good and evil.
i think its in isaiah, id have to look it up to be exact and to quote it perfectly. but the bible does say hes the creator of evil.

but it means that God is the occasion of evil, not that he crafted and performed evil.
evil wasnt evil untill the goodness of God made it right to call it that.
like theres no fiction without fact? theres no wrong if theres no right?
there was no EVIL untill God made GOOD and showed it.
God performing goodness set the standard and right and wrong, and initaily created evil at the same time.
Gods goodness and declaration of it was the occasion for evil to exist, becuase without goodness, there is nothing to judge anything as evil.
like paul said sin had no power, without the word of God or the law.
God is the creator of evil, in the sense that he was the occasion of it.
not the crafter and planner of evil.

do you understand what im saying?

 

[iac]

Yeah I understand. If He didn't make the law nobody could break it.