Hypothetically

[raven1]

Hypothetically what if this is not OCD and just me. Someone told me doubt God exists can't be a mental illness. That sort of makes sense to me.

 

[cedward1]

I'm not sure it matters where the doubt comes from. I think the fear is from OCD, even if the doubt is natural. But doubts won't make Jesus unwilling to save us. Otherwise Peter would have drowned.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Just as I have said before, I think, OCD will make you much more prone to doubt, "natural" or whatever you want to call it. With OCD, I don't think you can separate the cause and effect. You have probably heard OCD called "The Doubting Disease." I've read a book on OCD by that title even.

 

[raven1]

Yeah but I like to look at worse case scenario.

 

[gracealone]

Yeah but I like to look at worse case scenario.

It's OK to consider the "worse case scenario" as long as you don't let that stop you from getting help. Treating OCD will most generally cause us to feel that we might be running a huge risk, but our willingness to "run the risk" will speed our recovery.

Mitzi

 

[kaykay9.0]

Yeah but I like to look at worse case scenario.

haha! Yeah, I think that's the point. OCD does usually make us look at the worst case scenario and ignore the more probable!

It's OK to consider the "worse case scenario" as long as you don't let that stop you from getting help. Treating OCD will most generally cause us to feel that we might be running a huge risk, but our willingness to "run the risk" will speed our recovery.

Mitzi

 

[raven1]

I feel that I need to figure out if I will go to hell without it being OCD. Is what I mean.

 

[OCD=Owie]

Definitely avoid focusing on the worst case scenario in everything. That's the trap that I fell for when I had severe OCD. I think that it's in the nature of OCD to make you focus on the worst, most horrific possibilities in everything. If you do that though, you give legitimacy to the improbable, and usually even illogical "worst-case scenario" thoughts. If all you focus on is the worst case scenario, wondering whether it has been realized or not, then eventually, you're going to start thinking that you're in the worst-case scenario.

You have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise, your OCD will keep coming up with newer and more awful "worst-case scenarios" that you will feel that you have to focus on. Once you lock onto that and make it your main focus, you will start to feel like it's real despite any logic to the contrary.

 

[kaykay9.0]

Definitely avoid focusing on the worst case scenario in everything. That's the trap that I fell for when I had severe OCD. I think that it's in the nature of OCD to make you focus on the worst, most horrific possibilities in everything. If you do that though, you give legitimacy to the improbable, and usually even illogical "worst-case scenario" thoughts. If all you focus on is the worst case scenario, wondering whether it has been realized or not, then eventually, you're going to start thinking that you're in the worst-case scenario.

You have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise, your OCD will keep coming up with newer and more awful "worst-case scenarios" that you will feel that you have to focus on. Once you lock onto that and make it your main focus, you will start to feel like it's real despite any logic to the contrary.

Well said.

 

[raven1]

Ahhhhhh I don't want to go to hell for if it is not OCD. Everything makes me doubt my faith gets smaller all the time if I see a show on outerspace because if God created the world why so many moons and planets why young deaths. I don't know how to stay close to God when I read the bible it sounds so made up. I believe my doubts are not OCD maybe the ruminating. I dont want to go to hell for doubt but it is an unstoppable force.

 

[gracealone]

Just for clarity. What I meant by it being OK to consider the worst case scenario was referring to "Exposure" therapy. I should have made myself clear. I did the form of exposure where I purposely considered the worst case scenario's or "what if's" of my OCD. I didn't just consider them, I purposely exaggerated them. But, and this is this is the point of exposure, I didn't struggle against them at all when I did that. I allowed them to "do their worst" to make me feel as anxious as possible without trying to figure out whether they might be true or not. It' like saying to the bully; "Really... is that the best you can do?" Go ahead hit me again, but this time I want you to hit me harder, right smack in the nose. I know it's going to hurt but I can take it. I'm not going to run from you or fight against you anymore you big ugly creep!"
If my OCD thought were spiders, (I'm phobic of spiders), and I really wanted to get over my fear of them I would have to purposely expose myself to spiders. I might start out with little ones but I'd move up to bigger and more scary ones. This would undoubtedly make me very anxious but as I did it I could endure more and more exposure to them and the anxiety would begin to abate. Eventually if I really want to get over my fear of spiders I would willingly choose to pick up a tarantula and put it on my arm, maybe even let it crawl on my face. If I did this I would eventually lose my fear of spiders. In pure "O" OCD we are phobic to the thoughts so in order to get over them we have to sit with them and even exaggerate them without struggling against them in any way. Hope this makes some sense.
Sorry to have been so unclear.
Mitzi

It's OK to consider the "worse case scenario" as long as you don't let that stop you from getting help. Treating OCD will most generally cause us to feel that we might be running a huge risk, but our willingness to "run the risk" will speed our recovery.

Mitzi

 

[raven1]

No no no nobody is listening. I do not believe this is OCD well maybe the ruminating but my doubts are real and because I can't get enough proof, we have many moons in our solar system why ,people die young etc. I can't even read the bible it seems bad up. my faith is getting smaller day by day what happens to me if this is not OCD. I have no control over this.

 

[gracealone]

Hi Raven,
What will happen to you if this isn't OCD is that you will be comfortable and accepting of the idea that "there is no god". If that was the case you wouldn't be at all upset about it in fact you'd be happy about it like anyone or everyone who chooses to take that gigantic leap of faith to disbelieve in God. But make no mistake we do have control over what we choose in this matter. We all must either choose to walk in faith and continue to obey and follow Christ even if we can't obtain the full measure of proof that our brain wants or we must choose to walk away from Him and disbelieve. People who choose to disbelieve in God do so because they want autonomy - to be god to themselves. This is because there is so much evidence pointing in the other direction which will, if they take the time to ponder it, make them aware that they are actually refusing to believe. This is rebelliousness. They are not upset about that choice or scared or in any way concerned about it. They want so badly for there to be no god that they'll do anything to convince themselves of it.
My OCD used to make me so afraid that in the end my doubt filled questions would cause me to become like one of these rebellious individuals. It suggested that if I continued to be afraid that God might not be real that the end game would be that I'd be an athiest. That used to drive me to the brink of near and total despair. I had to choose to walk as a believer no matter how loud the doubts were yelling in my head. At the same time I chose to treat it as OCD even though I had no proof that it really was OCD instead of just me really doubting. And because I made those choices I got better.
Furthermore if we think for one moment that we can know everything concerning God we don't understand that He is infinite in His very nature. There must remain mysteries and questions because we haven't the capacity to contain or fully know all that He is.
PM me if you like and let me know what you've decided.
Mitzi

No no no nobody is listening. I do not believe this is OCD well maybe the ruminating but my doubts are real and because I can't get enough proof, we have many moons in our solar system why ,people die young etc. I can't even read the bible it seems bad up. my faith is getting smaller day by day what happens to me if this is not OCD. I have no control over this.

 

[raven1]

Well I was asking more like what if I am agnostic and this is not from OCD. See I doubt because it is something that can't be proven. OCD people doubt because they have OCD but deep down they truly believe without proof. I am not like that so that is y I still haven't decided on therapy or not. She can't give me belief. I also don't want therapy taking up time with my daughter because 2012 isn't far away.

 

[OCD=Owie]

Well I was asking more like what if I am agnostic and this is not from OCD. See I doubt because it is something that can't be proven. OCD people doubt because they have OCD but deep down they truly believe without proof. I am not like that so that is y I still haven't decided on therapy or not. She can't give me belief. I also don't want therapy taking up time with my daughter because 2012 isn't far away.

If you don't have so called "OCD doubt," then how can you know how people that do have it feel? I never felt like I "truly believe[d] without proof." I felt like I was rejecting God because I doubted. That was the source of lots of hurt earlier in my life.

You're doing something that is typical of people who suffer from OCD. You think to yourself, "well yeah, their fears are OCD, but I'm completely different! My fears are real." You start to think that others just don't understand, so anything that they tell you is shot down by your OCD thought processes. To people who suffer from OCD like this, the only thing they can trust is their "worst-case scenario" reasoning.

You're stuck in a cycle raven, and we aren't helping you. It really doesn't matter what we say because your OCD will always come up with a reason to ignore our advice. Since we're not helping you, and since reading about near-death experiences doesn't help you very much, then your last logical course of action is therapy.

You owe it to yourself and to your daughter to try and get better.

 

[raven1]

I understand OCD owie but I am curious of what therapy will do. I know without a shadow of a doubt that my doubt will not go away so how is the therapist going to be able to help me. Someone on this forum has doubted for twenty three years has been to therapy and says they are a natural doubter that they will doubt till they die. I am just like him. All his therapist was able to do was give him a few coping strategies. It didn't change him and make him believe. The only difference between this guy and me is he doesn't fear hell for doubting. He said God understands. She is not going to be able to help me believe I am not going to hell doubters without OCD go to hell.ahhhhh how am I supposed to cope with my fear there may be nothing after this without fearing hell. I am have to cope with that but everytime I think about it I fear hell.

 

[gracealone]

Agnostic really means just not bothering to weigh it all out and make a choice one way or the other. It's a way to try and excuse oneself from making a choice. It all comes down to choice because you will either choose to live with the hope that God is real and therefore act according to that hope or choose to disbelieve that He's real and therefore act according to that choice. We will live according to our beliefs and hopes. Like Paul said; "If we can already see, (ie. have proof) that which we are hoping for then we can't really say that we have hope." Faith, hope and love are the three remaining things. Tell me which one of them rests in 100 percent proof.
As far as not going into therapy - well maybe, just maybe a lot of the reason you aren't wanting to go is due to avoidance because you are afraid that you might find out that it's not the OCD but really just you doubting and that's a scary prospect to you. Been there and also done the avoidance thing.
But you'll never know if you can be helped if you don't try. What is really eating up your time with your daughter and your quality of life is all this rabid rumination. It's a pretty exhausting and painful way to live.
Sad that you backed out.... but still praying that you'll have a change of heart.
Hugs! Mitzi

Well I was asking more like what if I am agnostic and this is not from OCD. See I doubt because it is something that can't be proven. OCD people doubt because they have OCD but deep down they truly believe without proof. I am not like that so that is y I still haven't decided on therapy or not. She can't give me belief. I also don't want therapy taking up time with my daughter because 2012 isn't far away.

 

[gracealone]

Very well said Owie. I wanted to say some of those same things.. glad you covered those bases. I wholly agree with you.
Mitzi

If you don't have so called "OCD doubt," then how can you know how people that do have it feel? I never felt like I "truly believe[d] without proof." I felt like I was rejecting God because I doubted. That was the source of lots of hurt earlier in my life.

You're doing something that is typical of people who suffer from OCD. You think to yourself, "well yeah, their fears are OCD, but I'm completely different! My fears are real." You start to think that others just don't understand, so anything that they tell you is shot down by your OCD thought processes. To people who suffer from OCD like this, the only thing they can trust is their "worst-case scenario" reasoning.

You're stuck in a cycle raven, and we aren't helping you. It really doesn't matter what we say because your OCD will always come up with a reason to ignore our advice. Since we're not helping you, and since reading about near-death experiences doesn't help you very much, then your last logical course of action is therapy.

You owe it to yourself and to your daughter to try and get better.

 

[raven1]

Yes I am scared that this is just me doubting in fact I already know it is in the most part so now what? If I know it is mostly just doubt what do I do?!how do I not feel doomed?

 

[raven1]

I also thought u and others have said there is no way to know if it is OCD doubt or not and that all doubt is just that doubt so it doesn't make sense that in some point in therapy I would say Eureka! this is OCD. I am not following.