• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Hypothetical Christian World

FrenchyBearpaw

Take time for granite.
Jun 13, 2011
3,252
79
✟4,283.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Okay, so suffice it to say: even though you deserve hell, there is a reasonable chance you will never see it. Is that a fair interpretation of what you've described?

I've noticed that razer's MO is to become metaphysical when he runs out of argument. It will eventually get to a point where you have to be a Jedi Master like him to understand what he trying to convey, and only then will you truly understand that you don't understand. Understand?

 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married

 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Your sloppiness is unbecoming and inaccurate. No-one, anywhere to my knowledge will accuse anyone of bigotry for speaking out against murder. I would myself argue that greed and selfishness are in general unhelpful and in contrast to virtue but those are traits and not actions. You are lumping in direct actions with traits and then you go on eventually to list specific actions (you exclusively refer to the sex industry, some of which non-Christians do condemn to varying degrees.

At any rate, non-Christians are not and never were a homogenous group that you can dismiss and generalise in such a manner.

Maybe God really is speaking through Christians and trying to encourage the rapists and hustlers and pimps and thieves and robbers and murderers and greedy godless to amend their ways.
HA! AHAHAHAHAHA!

There are more capable ways that can guarantee better results.

Actually, forget about man-made evil. I can see your objections there.

This does not explain natural disasters, famines and plagues. Areas of which you have neglected to address.

What is the purpose of them?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Yeah, raze often accused me of misrepresenting people. He would butt into a discussion I'd be having with another (and reply as if I was addressing him), piously insist I was making stuff up. I'd then show him direct sourced quotes about what others have said and to take it with them.

He'd still deny it.
 
Upvote 0

FrenchyBearpaw

Take time for granite.
Jun 13, 2011
3,252
79
✟4,283.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

This ^^^

And his annoying insistence of redefining words to suit his assertions.
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Bingo

People cry and whine for having to have their cars inspected for road worthiness and protest helmet laws for motorcyclist my friend. I assure you, people would not go for any of the above, you know, people wanting to be autonomous and all.
Again, "mind your own business" is not a maxim people apply to the prevention of murder and rape.
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest
Bingo


Again, "mind your own business" is not a maxim people apply to the prevention of murder and rape.

Christians have been told to mind their business by many wicked purveyors of all sorts of filth which are directly detrimental to the welfare of humans. Everytime, they are met with "mind your own business" and "stop preaching at us" and "you should be more tolerant." etc etc.

Christians protest the murder of unborn children and are told to "mind their own business".

Christians protest sex trafficking and are told to "mind their own business" by those who profit from it.

Christians protest the pornography industry and are told to "mind their own business".

Christians protest against "alternate sexualities" and are told to "mind their own business".

You are living in denial if you think people want cosmic censorship to curtail their "rights to do what they want".

You're mad at God for not being and thinking like you do.

I thank God He is nothing like you.
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
And you are living in denial if you think your stereotyping and broad-brushing is justifying your point.

And once again, the bottom line remains: God can, but won't, stop the rape of children. You think this is excused because there are some things 'mind your own business' applies to?

You're mad at God for not being and thinking like you do.
I don't believe God exists. I'm not mad at him, anymore than I'm mad at Lord Voldemort for taking over the Ministry of Magic.

I thank God He is nothing like you.
So I, WC, would prevent the rape of children. God can, but won't, prevent the rape of children. And I'm the bad guy?
 
Upvote 0

KCfromNC

Regular Member
Apr 18, 2007
30,256
17,181
✟553,130.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

Sounds good to me. Your tone seems to think otherwise. Why are you in favor of people dying in automobile accidents?

Or maybe He should just make every car in the world disappear so there can be no automobile accidents?

Yeah, teleporters would be a great time saver. Why would a benevolent god keep this sort of stuff from us?
 
Upvote 0

KCfromNC

Regular Member
Apr 18, 2007
30,256
17,181
✟553,130.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

You seem to be confusing yourself with God. If your god were omnipotent as you claim, he'd be able to fix these problems without all the negative side effects that your meddling would cause. You do think your god is all-mighty, correct?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Christians have been told to mind their business by many wicked purveyors of all sorts of filth which are directly detrimental to the welfare of humans.
That is because what you see as filth are actually harmless actions between consenting adults. No-one is suggesting that God should intervene against them but telling Christians to not. You are as usual arguing a strawman.

Everytime, they are met with "mind your own business" and "stop preaching at us" and "you should be more tolerant." etc etc.

Christians protest the murder of unborn children and are told to "mind their own business".
I am open to an argument that all abortion is always the murder of unborn children but also note that no decent argument has been advanced for that proposition.

I also consider important the right of women to eject their pregnancies (unwanted or otherwise) early if they wish to.

Christians protest sex trafficking and are told to "mind their own business" by those who profit from it.
Do they?

Since when? I've never heard anyone morally serious favour sex trafficking.

Christians protest the pornography industry and are told to "mind their own business".
Yes.

That is none of your business. Unless the former is happening, or there is abuse going on it is nor yours nor my business.

Christians protest against "alternate sexualities" and are told to "mind their own business".
Yes.

Who on earth do you think you are to insist that people aren't allowed or should not be allowed their sexual preferences? They also aren't "alternate sexualities". They simply are sexualities.

You are living in denial if you think people want cosmic censorship to curtail their "rights to do what they want".
Au contrare, this is exactly what you in the end of it all actually wants.

You're on record for saying so. You approve of people going to hell for what they think. There is no greater form of censorship.

You're mad at God for not being and thinking like you do.
I'm not mad at God full stop. I don't believe in God. I suspect the same of Wiccan Child.

I thank God He is nothing like you.
Too bad, because if I was (or Wiccan was) a God with the powers of God there would be a lot less suffering.
 
Upvote 0

Eudaimonist

I believe in life before death!
Jan 1, 2003
27,482
2,738
58
American resident of Sweden
Visit site
✟126,756.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Should God surround every car on the highway with an invisible forcefield

That would be sufficient.

I assure you, people would not go for any of the above, you know, people wanting to be autonomous and all.

LOL! I think they would go for it in a heartbeat.

It sure would cut down on their insurance costs, would make driving perfectly safe, and wouldn't reduce anyone's autonomy at all.

When people speak of autonomy, they don't mean the right to plow into other people's automobiles and injure or kill someone, unless maybe you're thinking of the world of Mad Max.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest

If God was primarily concerned about eliminating automobile accidents, then there are numerous means He could utilize to prevent them. But God did not create the universe and humanity so He could eliminate automobile accidents. Sorry to break it to ya Mark.

This amounts to desiring divine intervention in every scenario where human suffering is even possible. This would not be feasible with God's plans and intentions in creating this world in the first place.

Sorry....but it looks like as long as humans are driving automobiles, there are gonna be humans suffering as a result of automobile related injuries.

If you don't like it, then talk to Ford or GM. Tell them to stop making automobiles.
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
God's "plans" and "intentions" seem to include (according to you) toying with us along the way and allowing suffering at random. I want no part in such caprice.
 
Upvote 0

quilbilly

Newbie
Aug 7, 2012
375
6
✟23,100.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married




All this talk about children suffering and who has done what to help or not. We are only human and anything we do will only be a bandaid. God however could have eliminated the vast majority of this problem by simply making procreation only happen when the parents wanted a child. Seems pretty easy peasy to me but I'm just a fallible human. I'm sure God could have stopped the suffering.

By the way nobody learns how to be a good human by suffering and dieing as a small child IMHO
 
Upvote 0

Davian

fallible
May 30, 2011
14,100
1,181
West Coast of Canada
✟46,103.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Ignostic
Marital Status
Married
Or, this is your way of explaining away the lack of demonstrable response by your god in *any* scenario.

What would you say is the difference between a god that doesn't respond, and one that is not there?
 
Upvote 0

Wiccan_Child

Contributor
Mar 21, 2005
19,419
673
Bristol, UK
✟46,731.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Then you cannot assert that God is caring, merciful, etc. By virtue of being omnipotent and omniscient, God necessarily knows of a way to accomplish his goals and to avoid human suffering, unless his goals are for humans to suffer.

Let's assume that the god you believe in exists. Do you believe we should worship this being?
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest

And it would be even easier for men and women to abstain from having sex if they do not want children. No sexual intercourse, no children.

Problem solved.
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest
Then you cannot assert that God is caring, merciful, etc.

Of course I can. God is caring, merciful, etc.

By virtue of being omnipotent and omniscient, God necessarily knows of a way to accomplish his goals and to avoid human suffering, unless his goals are for humans to suffer.

Or maybe God's goals are to bring about a state of affairs that is only possible in a world where humans are free moral agents.

Let's assume that the god you believe in exists. Do you believe we should worship this being?

You should worship Him only if you believe He is worthy of worship. Obviously you do not. So I do not expect you to. One cannot be forced to worship God anymore than one can be forced to love Him. You are free to reject Him. God loves you enough to let you have your freedom from Him, if that is what you desire.

But this freedom has a cost. It is evidenced in the world of suffering and sin in which we now live. So if you want to be free from the Highest Good, then you want suffering, sin, wickedness, evil, corruption, decay, disease, rape, and everything that is contrary to God.

Heaven or hell, righteousness or unrighteousness, self denial or selfishness, love or hate, charity or greed.

Each of us who are adults ultimately choose our destiny.
 
Upvote 0