Hyperlink to a testimony of a CONFESSED homosexual

[Jet_A_Jockey]

The reason I object to the term ex-gay is that the person in question isn't "ex-gay" at all. They are either denying oneself or found out their sexuality encompasses both genders.

whats wrong with denying yourself? Luke 9:23 23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

In what context? (Knowing that we completely disagree on homosexuality being sinful )

In the context that just because someone has an impulse to do something does not always make it right. And what I mean by right, is right by God, not right by secular humanist standards.




[quoteWe are just in debate about what Gods word actually says.[/quote]
For the most part we are in debate about what we believe rather than what the text says.

 

[HaloHope]

whats wrong with denying yourself? Luke 9:23 23Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Nothing if you are called to do so, but I don't for one minute believe that the many people who have homosexual attractions around the world are created for celibacy. Humans are (as part of Gods design) created for intimacy with another human.

In the context that just because someone has an impulse to do something does not always make it right. And what I mean by right, is right by God, not right by secular humanist standards.

I still haven't heard a legitimate reason why homosexuality is wrong by Gods standards.

For the most part we are in debate about what we believe rather than what the text says.

A lot of debate on our beliefs comes from our interpretation of what the Bible says though, correct?

 

[KCKID]

I think that the point that stands out for me with "ex-gay" style testimonies is celibacy does not equate removal of orientation neither does attraction to the opposite sex suddenly (it just means the person was bi-sexual).

Now of course a person can be celibate and if they really feel compelled to do so I can't say I have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with it, is when that person feels they are called to celibacy simply because of external pressure but on them by society or family or their church just because they happen to be homosexual. Personally I think that is abuse.

Bottom line for me is if the church were as loving and accepting as it should be then people wouldnt feel the need to struggle with their sexuality in the first place. Who you are (assuming your sexuality dosent hurt others) should be embraced and enjoyed.

Well said. I am in absolute agreement with you. You just saved me the time and effort in constructing a similarly worded post.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Nothing if you are called to do so, but I don't for one minute believe that the many people who have homosexual attractions around the world are created for celibacy. Humans are (as part of Gods design) created for intimacy with another human.

As part of God's design they are created for procreation, hence the need for different sexual organs.

I still haven't heard a legitimate reason why homosexuality is wrong by Gods standards.

I wasn't aware that I needed to give you one. I could bring it up as against intended design, but then I get to hear all about how there are homosexual animals, and how there are infertile heterosexuals, so blah to you

A lot of debate on our beliefs comes from our interpretation of what the Bible says though, correct?

Differences in interpretation do make up some of the debates, but often times its acceptance of a common interpretation that is the issue. Heck, some people don't even believe that scripture is a direct revelation from God, so with that standard anything goes really.

 

[HaloHope]

As part of God's design they are created for procreation, hence the need for different sexual organs.

As you well know, I disagree.

I wasn't aware that I needed to give you one. I could bring it up as against intended design, but then I get to hear all about how there are homosexual animals, and how there are infertile heterosexuals, so blah to you

But, but.. surely we all enjoy saying the same thing 100,000,000 times?

Differences in interpretation do make up some of the debates, but often times its acceptance of a common interpretation that is the issue. Heck, some people don't even believe that scripture is a direct revelation from God, so with that standard anything goes really.

Ah, diversity is a wonderful thing.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

As you well know, I disagree.

Yeah, I know ya do. I don't hold it against ya though. I feel that we are put here foremost to serve God, any pleasure we gain during the process is just a bonus. And truly, given by examples of early christians and personal experience, following Christ tends to steer me into the 'suffering' department more than the 'pleasure' one. I don't mind it though, because I know where my treasures are stored, and its not on this dying world.

Ah, diversity is a wonderful thing.

For what? A utopian world? Or one that is actually held to a standard? The problem isn't diversity as much as it is diversion.

 

[HaloHope]

Yeah, I know ya do. I don't hold it against ya though. I feel that we are put here foremost to serve God, any pleasure we gain during the process is just a bonus. And truly, given by examples of early christians and personal experience, following Christ tends to steer me into the 'suffering' department more than the 'pleasure' one. I don't mind it though, because I know where my treasures are stored, and its not on this dying world.

Thats fair enough, I dont hold it against you either Jet . Personally I feel we wouldn't be placed here in the first place if we weren't to get some level of enjoyment out of our time here, I very much love life here on earth and think it is a wonder of Gods creation. While I do believe heaven awaits oneday I feel it's a bit of a waste of the wonders of this world to just focus on that and forget everything else.

For what? A utopian world? Or one that is actually held to a standard? The problem isn't diversity as much as it is diversion.

Uniqueness in humans is something I feel is one of the most amazing things about us.



But anyway we are both kinda getting off topic

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear HaloHope,

Now of course a person can be celibate and if they really feel compelled to do so I can't say I have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with it, is when that person feels they are called to celibacy simply because of external pressure but on them by society or family or their church just because they happen to be homosexual. Personally I think that is abuse.

Ok fair enough, that’s the way it is. But now you seem to be disbelieving the scriptures that say to be celibate for the Kingdom. Matt 19, 1 Cor 7 etc. The point made to you was the Christian way according to the Bible is a sacrifice to God,, all you have done is given your personal view again, which isnt in line with God’s word in the Bible.

Bottom line for me is if the church were as loving and accepting as it should be then people wouldn’t feel the need to struggle with their sexuality in the first place. Who you are (assuming your sexuality doesn’t hurt others) should be embraced and enjoyed.

No has to struggle, we are free not to sin, and can be transformed by the Holy Spirit. We all get tempted, but our wish becomes not to give in to temptation. I have been able to give up addictions through Jesus Christ, this is what the testimony is about. What about being tempted by possessions and riches, what about having to love others, these are at least just as hard as avoiding sex.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Convincing yourself you aren't gay is a false sense of testimony, so quite the opposite, actually. Pretty sad someone would feel the need to change the way they really are (which has been proven unchangeable).


As stated, many have withdrawn their testimonies and REGRETTED ever giving them to start. Anti-gay testimonies aren't proof of anything, except their current state of denial.

Pretty sad indeed, since I spoke only of him putting God first and everything else second.

 

[savedandhappy1]

I think that the point that stands out for me with "ex-gay" style testimonies is celibacy does not equate removal of orientation neither does attraction to the opposite sex suddenly (it just means the person was bi-sexual).

Now of course a person can be celibate and if they really feel compelled to do so I can't say I have a problem with it. What I do have a problem with it, is when that person feels they are called to celibacy simply because of external pressure but on them by society or family or their church just because they happen to be homosexual. Personally I think that is abuse.

Bottom line for me is if the church were as loving and accepting as it should be then people wouldnt feel the need to struggle with their sexuality in the first place. Who you are (assuming your sexuality dosent hurt others) should be embraced and enjoyed.

Did I miss something, because I don't remember him saying anything about external pressure?

 

[davedjy]

Pretty sad indeed, since I spoke only of him putting God first and everything else second.

You said that the testimony was a blessing to you. I explained why I didn't believe it was. I have nothing against someone putting God first, everyone should, but that shouldn't require someone trying to change their sexual orientation or celibacy.

 

[savedandhappy1]

The reason I object to the term ex-gay is that the person in question isn't "ex-gay" at all. They are either denying oneself or found out their sexuality encompasses both genders.

Or they have been lead by the Holy Spirit to believe homosexuality is a sin, and have ask the Lord for strength to overcome that sin.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Yeah, I know ya do. I don't hold it against ya though. I feel that we are put here foremost to serve God, any pleasure we gain during the process is just a bonus. And truly, given by examples of early christians and personal experience, following Christ tends to steer me into the 'suffering' department more than the 'pleasure' one. I don't mind it though, because I know where my treasures are stored, and its not on this dying world.

For what? A utopian world? Or one that is actually held to a standard? The problem isn't diversity as much as it is diversion.

Sadly so true.

 

[davedjy]

I agree with Criada,
But the OP is about what God has done, Davedjy and some others are focussing on sexuality.

I focused on the testimony, and this is a sexuality forum. I already explained why I don't trust testimonies.

 

[davedjy]

Or they have been lead by the Holy Spirit to believe homosexuality is a sin, and have ask the Lord for strength to overcome that sin.

...or led by satan from religious leaders to believe it is a sin.

 

[savedandhappy1]

I focused on the testimony, and this is a sexuality forum. I already explained why I don't trust testimonies.

So your testimony about being happier since you stopped teaching that homosexuality is a sin, and now saying it is how God made you, can't be trusted?

I can trust everything that has to do with the Lord, and I'm sorry you can't.

The Bible tells us we should be ready to speak about our hope/faith, but if it can't be trusted.....................sorry makes no sense to me.

 

[savedandhappy1]

You said that the testimony was a blessing to you. I explained why I didn't believe it was. I have nothing against someone putting God first, everyone should, but that shouldn't require someone trying to change their sexual orientation or celibacy.

Yes, I spoke of his testimony and the part where he tells how he has put God first in his life. It is a shame that all so many see is the sexual part, and not the other.

I do believe that it would require a change if one was truely putting God first, because anything we put above God is totally against God.

 

[savedandhappy1]

...or led by satan from religious leaders to believe it is a sin.

Whom again I saw nothing about external pressure, but leading by the Holy Spirit. Guess we see what we want to, though.

 

[davedjy]

So your testimony about being happier since you stopped teaching that homosexuality is a sin, and now saying it is how God made you, can't be trusted?

Actually, it can. Homosexuality has been proven to be unchangeable. My aim was at anti-gay testimonies, not testimonies in general. Mine at least was a realistic one.

I can trust everything that has to do with the Lord, and I'm sorry you can't.

With that flawed logic, you would've trusted testimonies that have since been retracted and from many individuals that regretted making them in the first place. THAT is one main reason why I don't trust anti-gay testimonies.

The Bible tells us we should be ready to speak about our hope/faith, but if it can't be trusted.....................sorry makes no sense to me.

I wasn't talking about testimonies in general, but testimonies that one has changed their sexual orientation.

Yes, I spoke of his testimony and the part where he tells how he has put God first in his life. It is a shame that all so many see is the sexual part, and not the other.

A shame? that is the focus of this forum!

I do believe that it would require a change if one was truely putting God first, because anything we put above God is totally against God.

Then I could easily argue that anyone who has heterosexual sex doesn't put God first.

Whom again I saw nothing about external pressure, but leading by the Holy Spirit. Guess we see what we want to, though.

Of course you see that. You didn't see that I was lead by the Holy Spirit w/my testimony, so you saw what you wanted to see. I have yet to see even one testimony that wasn't inspired by external pressure somewhere, somehow.

 

[HaloHope]

Or they have been lead by the Holy Spirit to believe homosexuality is a sin, and have ask the Lord for strength to overcome that sin.

Seeing as I don't believe God views homosexuality as a sin I wouldnt believe the holy spirit stops people being homosexual either.