The Lady Kate said:
Of course, you would never admit to limitations.
Of course we would. We only see through a glass darkly now, and know little about the future or the far past. But at least we know something. If all we use is science we become
mere assumers, with no hope of coming to a knowledge of what really will go on, or did.
I freely admit that much of science is based on logical and reasonable assumptions, which may very well be incorrect.
Good for you, no use denying it.
You make no such admission, but continue to assume.
I make the same admission you do, science is very limited and can't tell us the future, for example will be physical only, in decay as the present is.
What was that about "pitiful"?
The fact they forget to mention that telling kids our galaxy will slam into another one day or our sun will burn out. The fact that they forget it also when claiming the universe sailed out of a little hot soup, rather than the fact that the earth was here before the stars and galaxies, etc. Pitiful indeed, that the
assumption mill grinds out creation replacing stories based on unproven, unsupportable claims the future will be just as the present, rather than the way the bible says it will be. It says this heavens is temporary and will pass away, and a new ones appear, that is eternal, and not perish, and decay away as this one is wont to do.
But must it be literal to be right?
Unless there is good reason to understand it is not in some small are. But I say Eden, and the flood, and the new heavens, etc must be true. There really must be a Noah, that was the only little group to survive the flood in all the world. If you mean some little thing like the man who slept on his watch, no, I don't think someone slept on a little timepiece.
Ah.... there's the root of it all. To "fabalize" the Bible, in your mind, would make it untrue. Every spiritual and moral lesson must also be physically so.... even if the laws of physics themselves need to be rewritten or discarded.
The laws of physics must be discared. The are laws of death. They are limitations of a temporary universe soon to forever be no more. They are like a little fishbowl compared to the seven seas. The laws in the fishbowl are well and good, but the future and far past was not in that bowl, and no science can say they were. -That physical only present fishbowl.
As long as you remember that the One is not you.
Sorry if you think God post on the forum. Hopefully, that is humour.
Nor do you... scientifically speaking.
But I don't have a science claim, I claim science is too limited, can you think of who has that claim of science?!
So talk about the Bible... nobody's stopping you. But the Bible isn't science. This is where that whole "Chess/Scrabble" metaphor comes into play.
SCience goes only as far as the methodology and testibility and evidence allows. That does not extend into the future, save by assumption. Whatever the bible is or is not, science is not able to declare a physical only past and future. Long as you play scrabble only in the fishbowl, no one cares! When you claim that your little game extends to eternity, and creation, that is not science.
Science, like chess, has rules. If you want to claim checkmate, play chess. Don't claim victory just because you find the rules too limiting. It's childish... like kicking over the board because you don't like your opponent's last move.
No, It is acknowledging that the opponent has no more possible moves left. You can't back up PO claims of the past and future, so it is not science that goes in any way there. You can claim science, and even that the bible, to your limited knowledge, at least, is not science, but you cannot go beyong the present, and last thousands of years. That is your limits. In there, you do have science, out of there, you are like a fish
out of it's fishbowl.
So you explain shenren's boatload of megamiracles by imagining a world where miracles were commonplace. I don't see how this disproves his claims.
Not commonplace, but natural. It was no miracle for a tree to grow fast, that was nature then. It was no miracle for light to get here fast, it was a different universe, and light, it was natural. No miracle for matter not to decay, there was none, so to have decay would have been more an act of God. Now, our universe is PO, and that is what we have regarded as 'natural'.
And if we accept your definitions as truth, once you step beyond that, you are no longer in the realm of science.
When you try to step out of the fishbowl, you are not in the realm of science. That is where science ends, if you want to come out beyond that it is not with science.
Once again, neither can you. So if old ages is not science, then neither of us are speaking scientifically anymore.
Right, of course, no one on earth can evidence that the future will be PO, and not pass away, with a new heavens. That is why all who claim to do so are science falsely so called. In the limits of the present, they are bonifide, nowhere else. (Present being up to abpu 4400 years ago)
The difference is, that if we play this by your rules, I'm willing to accept the limitations of science... you're rewriting the rules to get some form of science, evn your own, to agree with you.
No. I am saying the evidence we do have is in agreement with a merged future, and past. That is not proof for me any more than for you. Science is shown to be limited. But I still know what the past and future hold or held to some extent, even though science cannot help us there. What that means, is that if all you have is science, you do not know.
(on a side note, why is it that only YECs think that multiple exclaimation points after a statement somehow make it more true? Don't they realize it's the internet equivalent of hysterics?)
It gets a reaction from old agers, so it must have some small effect!!
Odd... it looks more like a tie to me. And the last I checked, the game isn't over yet.
When I used to use flood geology, old agers always claimed victory, I thought it was closer to a tie. Now you
clamor for a tie, and I know it is a resounding victory!
If by the "rule book" you mean the Bible, it should be noted that science doesn't use that book for its rules. Proving once again that you're not playing by science's rules.
If I were my limitations would have me in the dark about the far past and future as well!
I'm not claiming I won... you are. I would like to point out that the game isn't over until the Final Judge says it is.
He already said it, --in the bible! Science's game of trying to overrule creation, with imagination, and the new heavens with dark prophesies is almost over.
Perhaps you should wait for His decision before running your victory lap? Premature celebration can be most embarassing for men... so I've been told.
With new bodies that are not PO, we will be able to celebrate all night soon!
Furthermore, whatever game you're playing, you're not using the science rule book. It's easy to declare checkmate when you're the one who decides how the pieces should be allowed to move.
I don't decide, I simply note your limits. Then, I read about what God decided went on there!
I'm willing to admit that the game is not over yet, and even if we accept your version of the rules (which skews the game squarely in your favor), it's currently a draw.
That's funny. I'll try and allow a dignified defeat, however, and not gloat too much, like some old agers tended to do.
