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Hybridization as the sole mechanism of speciation in creationism. But how?

tas8831

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I get it - creationists cannot allow that mutations play a role in the generation of diversity. So how then to explain the diversity we see around us?

One creationist has staked his claim on the notion of hybrids. His famous (and repetitive, ad nauseum) argument goes something like this:


Today, we have human races, Asian, African, and so on. One does not become the other via mutation, and neither were produced via mutation.
But if an Asian breeds with an African, we get an Afro-Asian, and a new race!
So see? That is how speciation really works, through the hybridization of Biblical Kinds (which this same creationist defines as being equivalent to 'species', which is funny because if Kind=species, then old man Noah and his 7 companions had to care for MILLIONS of animals on the ark, not the few tens of thousands that creationists like Woodmorappe claim, but that is another subject).



Creationists also believe that the very first 2 humans were created - Adam and Eve (though there is one guy on here who claims that Adam and Eve were just the first Hebrews).

Adam from the dust of the ground, Eve being cloned from Adam, so their genomes must have been nearly identical (never mind the whole X and Y chromosome thing...).


So the question I have been asking - a question that keeps getting ignored - is this:


Where did an Asian and an African come from in the first place, if 'races' are the product of hybridization?


Which of Adam and Eve's offspring hybridized with which other one to produce an Asian? An African? And where did the alleles that congregate in each 'race', that produce the characteristics of these races, come from if the races were produced via hybridization?


I grant, absolutely, that the hybridization of an Asian and an African (for purposes of this line of questioning) produces an 'Afro-Asian', but they arose from an Afro-Asian via the interbreeding of two DIFFERENT races.

And if Adam and Eve were basically identical, the same race, WHERE did the African-kind and Asian-kind come from?


These seem to be pretty necessary questions to answer and support with more than mere assertions, especially if you are going to present your hybrids claim as a refutation of evolution (as this creationist has done).

No?
 

pitabread

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There definitely isn't enough genetic variation within the creationist framework (particularly with respect to the the YEC flood scenario) to account for the diversity we see today without massive reliance on mutations. And oddly enough they require mutation rates far beyond what is observed in nature or would likely be tolerated by species without leading to extinctions.

As an alternative, I have seen creationists suggest that original created species had some sort of magic super genomes. But naturally there is zero evidence to support such a contention.
 
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Tayla

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creationists cannot allow that mutations play a role in the generation of diversity. So how then to explain the diversity we see around us?
Creationists are wrong in rejecting science; that's all there is to it.
 
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tas8831

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There definitely isn't enough genetic variation within the creationist framework (particularly with respect to the the YEC flood scenario) to account for the diversity we see today without massive reliance on mutations. And oddly enough they require mutation rates far beyond what is observed in nature or would likely be tolerated by species without leading to extinctions.

As an alternative, I have seen creationists suggest that original created species had some sort of magic super genomes. But naturally there is zero evidence to support such a contention.

And they just keep making the same failed and false arguments over and over and over, no matter how many times their errors are explained to them.
 
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essentialsaltes

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This doesn't provide an answer to your question, but some derive different peoples from the three sons of Noah. Ham's descendants produce the nations of Africa, Shem's produce the 'Shemitic' people of the Near East, and Japhtheh's produce nations around the Caucasus/Black Sea.

Curious that it only covers the nations near at hand and known to the authors.

2-table-nations-39.jpg
 
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tas8831

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This doesn't provide an answer to your question, but some derive different peoples from the three sons of Noah. Ham's descendants produce the nations of Africa, Shem's produce the 'Shemitic' people of the Near East, and Japhtheh's produce nations around the Caucasus/Black Sea.

Curious that it only covers the nations near at hand and known to the authors.

Surely just a coincidence.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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I've been reading the whole "Afro-Asian" discussion (I won't call it a debate for obvious reasons). I would have jumped in earlier, but didn't want to disrupt the fun, with the questions of what is an African? And what is an Asian?

I see very little resemblance between natives of Libya and Zimbabwe, for instance. So which is African? And the variety in Asia is far larger. So what does an "Afro-Asian" even look like?
 
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tas8831

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I've been reading the whole "Afro-Asian" discussion (I won't call it a debate for obvious reasons). I would have jumped in earlier, but didn't want to disrupt the fun, with the questions of what is an African? And what is an Asian?

I see very little resemblance between natives of Libya and Zimbabwe, for instance. So which is African? And the variety in Asia is far larger. So what does an "Afro-Asian" even look like?


We will have to wait for the expert on "genetic strains" to explain it all to us.
 
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