Hunting: Ethics & Morality

[Lion of Narnia]

For those of you who don't think you could kill to save your life, I have some news for you. You do, by proxy. Dosn't matter if your'e a vegan. Every time a field is plowed it results in the detruction of animal life, and not just insects. If were talking equivalents here, life for life, more mammals and birds are killed by direct farming action or habitat displacement than by meat-raising or hunting every year.

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

Lion of Narnia: Dreadful...but true. There's only so much we can do.

I was just thinking. We've been talking about eating the animals you kill. I remember when I was little and saw the lobsters in the tank at any seafood resturuant I could never eat them. Especially after spending the ten minute wait watching them. They'd become like pets. I think I even named them XP

You could imagine my reaction when I found out people ate them. 0.0.

 

[feral]

i find hunting and killing for sport to be pathetic. while i appreciate that you at least make an effort to eat your kill rather then waste it or hang the carcass on your wall, i don't see the point in indulging in the savage behavior. perhaps, if the deer or whatever target was equally armed it would be considered a real sport. otherwise, i think it's just an ego trip.
of course...in the spirit of tolerance that i harp on, just 'cause i don't like it doesn't mean you can't do it.

For those of you who don't think you could kill to save your life, I have some news for you. You do, by proxy.

it's good of you to point that out. and true. we kill something just by building new buildings, cutting down rain forest and using big 'ol gas guzzler cars.

 

[foolsparade]

I personaly have never been hunting or intentionaly killed another animal. I ran over someones cat once, by accident. I am hesitant to say its wrong mainly because I eat steak, hamburgers, and lamb chops sometimes. If I had to kill the animal to eat meat, I would not do it, simply because I do not enjoy killing things. Now to kill a beautiful animal just for the head or pelt is very low on my moral meter. I often wonder what a father would tell his young son when he ask's " why do you kill?"

 

[Vylo]

What? You're the first Catholic I met that believes in evolution.

You must live in a very different area from me, or not talk to many catholics. Many of them around me believe in both creation and evolution.

 

[Lion of Narnia]

I would say, from pretty intensive study, that 98%+ of all hunting, even so called "sport" hunting involves eating the kill.

Perhaps we should make a division in this clarification between "subsistence hunting" (hunting really becuase it's the only way one can get high quality protein) and "optional hunting"

However, even in optional hunt situations, valid psychological and _spiritual_ needs can be met. This is most easily shown in some Indians who for various reasons cannot do hunting--they get sufficient food from welfare programs, but the alcholism, drug abuse, and suicide rates soar.

Lest one only exempt Indians from condemnation because they're "Indians" (ie, consided so primitive they don't mesure up to a more _advanced_ ethic-a form of spiritual racism BTW) lots of cultures and sub cultures have the hunting ethic built around strong psychological needs.

Also, the making of trophies from hunted animals has a long history, even among so called "savages"

 

[kdet]

(ie, consided so primitive they don't mesure up to a more _advanced_ ethic-a form of spiritual racism BTW)>

Do people still believe the above???
Hunting can be very beneficial. The Native Americans out here where I live do a lot of hunting. It perserves a culture for them that would otherwise be lost.

 

[Lion of Narnia]

(ie, consided so primitive they don't mesure up to a more _advanced_ ethic-a form of spiritual racism BTW)>

Do people still believe the above???
Hunting can be very beneficial. The Native Americans out here where I live do a lot of hunting. It perserves a culture for them that would otherwise be lost.

Yes SW, PETA apparently does, as well as Fund for the Animals, and the American Humane Soceity

 

[awackywabbit]

For those of you who abhor hunting...

How do you propose we control the wildlife populations if hunting is banned?
Who is going to help pay to preserve the forests and wildlife, if there are no hunting/fishing licenses sold?
Did you know hunters/fishermen do more to conserve wildlife & their habitat than PETA activists?

Hunting is a great sport that is beneficial to both the predators and the prey. Without hunters the cities would be overrun with deer, bear, elk, coyotes, rabbits, etc, etc, etc.

As a Christian I enjoy hunting and so do many others. Most people who are against it just don't understand it and how it benefits the herds and the land. Even killing for trophies serves a purpose in land & game management.

What I don't understand is why someone can be so against hunting, yet think nothing of going to McDonald's and ordering a Big Mac, or putting a big juicy chicken in the oven. I assure you the meat that made those meals had it much worse off then any trophy animal in the wild.

 

[Lion of Narnia]

Lion of Narnia: Dreadful...but true. There's only so much we can do.

I was just thinking. We've been talking about eating the animals you kill. I remember when I was little and saw the lobsters in the tank at any seafood resturuant I could never eat them. Especially after spending the ten minute wait watching them. They'd become like pets. I think I even named them XP

You could imagine my reaction when I found out people ate them. 0.0.

What is your reaction to know that lobsters would eat you, given the chance?

 

[pudmuddle]

I'm going to out myself. I hunt. So far, 3 deer, 1 javelina, a lot of cottontails and jackrabbits. I ate everything I killed (prepared the jacks as hausenfefer) and their deaths were quick and I beleive mercifull.

I also enjoy the experience of hunting a lot. Considering the effort and expense, from a cost benefit analysis it dosn't make much sense. Only with the deer do I do better than break even. Right now, drought conditions in Arizona are such that I don't consider white tail or mule deer. But every so often I have to recharge the spiritual batteries, pick up the Lee-Enfield and hunt jacks.

That's right, spiritual. I'm in Creation, interacting with it, not just an observer. Do I enjoy the kill? Like probably 95%+ of most hunters I experience some sadness at the moment. But I'm not going to deny the elation, even joy that can also happen. "One does not hunt in order kill, rather one kills in order to hunt"--Ortega Y Gasset. It's a mixture of so many things, a totality almost akin to taking Communion. Blasphemy? I don't think so. But it is related, to the princible that from death comes sustained and renewed life.



Anyway, your responses are appreciated.

-Robert

Robert,
Glad to meet a fellow hunter. You've already stated most of my feelings about it very well. I tend to see it a bit hypocritical for people to critisize hunters and yet eat their steak or chicken bought at the grocery store. Taking part in the entire process from sign-reading, to the kill, the processing to the table is in my veiw a much more open and honest relationship with the natural world. And there is a spiritual side to it. I also spend a whole lot of time tanning other peoples deer hides by traditional methods there is a great deal of satisfaction to taking what is usually veiwed as waste and turning it into beautiful buckskin. I guess I'm pretty blessed to live in a rural area and enjoy God's creation and creatures everyday, without the interference of the concrete jungle.

 

[12volt_man]

For those of you who abhor hunting...

How do you propose we control the wildlife populations if hunting is banned?
Who is going to help pay to preserve the forests and wildlife, if there are no hunting/fishing licenses sold?
Did you know hunters/fishermen do more to conserve wildlife & their habitat than PETA activists?

Hunting is a great sport that is beneficial to both the predators and the prey. Without hunters the cities would be overrun with deer, bear, elk, coyotes, rabbits, etc, etc, etc.

As a Christian I enjoy hunting and so do many others. Most people who are against it just don't understand it and how it benefits the herds and the land. Even killing for trophies serves a purpose in land & game management.

I live near Chestertown Md where duck hunting is nearly a religion.

We have a terrible problem with the deer population. I can drive from C'Town to Georgetown and count as many as six or seven carcasses by the side of the road. The joke around here is that you can always tell the locals from the weekenders because the locals only have one headlight on their car from where they hit the deer.

We have no choice but to kill them.

My mother lives near Georgetown, Md, where the Dupont family (of Dupont Chemicals fame) has a large estate. They feed the deer and offer them a safe haven. I appreciate that they are trying to be kind to the deer but, in the long run, it's very cruel.

There are so many of them that they are starting to inbreed and spread disease among themselves.

Second, the deer don't know that they're supposed to stay on the Dupont estate and there simply isn't enough food for them in the surrounding areas. They're sick and they're starving.

I actually quit hunting about six or seven years ago (not for moral reasons) but started again a couple of years ago when I moved to this area.

It's not exactly the same thing but, in the spirit of full disclosure, I also fish competetively.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Whats the relevant different between hunting and eating meat? There really isn't any. Hunting is a natural part of human life. I vociferously oppose hunting endangered animals and the like for trophies and such (like rhinos and tigers- it makes me mad), but deer? Gimme a break.