Hunting: Ethics & Morality

[Lion of Narnia]

I'm going to out myself. I hunt. So far, 3 deer, 1 javelina, a lot of cottontails and jackrabbits. I ate everything I killed (prepared the jacks as hausenfefer) and their deaths were quick and I beleive mercifull.

I also enjoy the experience of hunting a lot. Considering the effort and expense, from a cost benefit analysis it dosn't make much sense. Only with the deer do I do better than break even. Right now, drought conditions in Arizona are such that I don't consider white tail or mule deer. But every so often I have to recharge the spiritual batteries, pick up the Lee-Enfield and hunt jacks.

That's right, spiritual. I'm in Creation, interacting with it, not just an observer. Do I enjoy the kill? Like probably 95%+ of most hunters I experience some sadness at the moment. But I'm not going to deny the elation, even joy that can also happen. "One does not hunt in order kill, rather one kills in order to hunt"--Ortega Y Gasset. It's a mixture of so many things, a totality almost akin to taking Communion. Blasphemy? I don't think so. But it is related, to the princible that from death comes sustained and renewed life.

Anyway, your responses are appreciated.

-Robert

 

[JillLars]

I agree with you Lion of Narnia, in the Bible God gave man power over the creatures, but we also have a responsibility to take care of them. Because our population has grown so much, hunting is necessary. I can't even stress that enough. I live outside of the twin cities, and they have been considering allowing bow hunting of deer in the city limits because of the number of deer running out onto the freeway and getting hit by cars. Ultimately it comes down to whether we want these animals to die a quick painless death, or a long suffering death of starvation, or injury, or whatever. I do think that one should use the meat from the animal, eat it or sell it to someone who will eat it. Never waste it. That's my opinion on the subject.

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

Well, killing an animal for sport is just plain wrong. I'm against hunting in any form and for any reason. Those are my personal principles and convictions.

I just feel I don't have the right to take another life. Even if for my survival.

I just keep picturing that scene from the movie BAMBI when Bambi's mother was killed by Hunters. That movie scarred me...man.

Yes...I'm an animal lover. Yes...I'm the person who picked up that spider and took it outside when everyone else was yelling 'kill it!' Yes, I think everything is cuddly. Yes. That's how I got bitten. Yes, I'm a conservationist. Yes, I've worked at animal rehabs and shelters. Yes, I'm into all of the animal rights stuff.

Yes, I know. I'll shut up now.

I don't like it...but I understand it has to be done in certain cases. Most of our species are omnivores, after all. And it's part of the balance of things.

Just...never for sport. And no over doing it...we have enough endangered species.

*end rant*

 

[JillLars]

Arthur, I totally know where you are coming from. I could never go hunting, in fact, I tried to go duck hunting once, and ended up falling in a swamp, and getting stuck in a thorn bush in the same day, so that turned me away from hunting I am glad that you realize its a neccesary evil. There are those out there who just say, don't kill the animals, and then wonder why we see 20 dead deer on the side of the road on the way to work? I think its good that there are people who hunt for sport, otherwise we'd have to pay people to do it. Instead, they pay the government to do it, to regulate it. I think as long as they use the meat, and are humane, its alright to do it for sport.

 

[Lion of Narnia]

"Sport" What a loaded word, and most of the meanings are frivolous. In terms of hunting, the closest is "recreation". Not enough. "Lifestyle", closer but pretentious.

But "sport" does have some very positive associations, which is a shame considering how some anti's have demonized it's association with hunting. Such as playing by the rules and ethics of the activity. Of playing for it's own sake with the goal (the kill) a very small though essential part of the entire experience. Of letting the opposition have a very good chance of winning (staying alive). Many a time in the hunting camp the exchange goes; Q: "How you do today?" A;"Great! I didn't get anything but I spent the entire day hunting!"

Slob hunters, rich and poor ,are the bane of the tradition. They are a small percentage, but they are the ones the mass media portrays. Even before Christians, they are the last acceptable derrogatory stereotypes
(such as the vile "political cartoons" of the Arizona Republic's Steve Benson)

 

[Jet Black]

nothing wrong if you are going to eat it. however I don't agree with trophy hunting and so on.

 

[Lion of Narnia]

nothing wrong if you are going to eat it. however I don't agree with trophy hunting and so on.

Define "trophy hunting"--a term almost as misunderstood as "sport"

In regards to "necessary evil", I disagree. I see it as positive, a boon, even a gift of the Creator, the true "Lord of the Animals"

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

the fact that you feel sadness, and still get off on it is totally twisted to me. end of story nothing more to it.

 

[Gabriel]

I have never been hunting. I love to shoot skeet, targets, etc. It's more of a time thing for me. Not enough free time to put in to the effort. I don't see anything wrong with it, depending on how it's done.

I would define hunting for "sport" or "trophy hunting" as hunting for the kill alone or to have a head to hang on the wall while discarding the carcass. If you eat what you kill and the kill is clean, I believe that's what God intends for the animals. Not their only purpose, but one of them.

Appreciate God's creation while shooting it? Yes, I believe that can be done. To look around and appreciate the Creator while enjoying nature certainly glorifies God. Creation is for us to enjoy, God certainly doesn't need it.

There is also an organization called Hunters Against Hunger. They hunt for "sport", but donate the meat to feed the poor. Sound silly?

Since the Sportsmen Against Hunger Program began, 89,819 pounds of deer meat have been donated, providing approximately 359,276 meals of venison. http://dnr.state.il.us/pubaffairs/2002/Jan/isah1Mpressrelease.htm

 

[Vylo]

By me, hunting for sport is very common. There is however a purpose to this. There are no natural predators for deer in this region. As a result, the deer population swells to incredible numbers. This presents a hazard to humans, and also causes the deer to starve to death in the winter. So hunters go out every year and kill to their satisfaction. Many eat the deer, but others do not. There are simply too many deer to get rid of.

 

[Ben johnson]

I USED to shoot skeet, but I could never figure out how to cook it..

 

[Gabriel]

I USED to shoot skeet, but I could never figure out how to cook it..

ROFL You're supposed to eat it raw. And wash it down with water from a puddle formed in your horse' hoof print. Don't you watch John Wayne?

 

[Lion of Narnia]

the fact that you feel sadness, and still get off on it is totally twisted to me. end of story nothing more to it.

The deep structure of your comment is interesting. "Get off on it"--Do you mean some quasi-sexual thing? Nothing even close to it. But if you mean satisfaction of an extreamly high degree for a difficult task well done (The approach, the close stalk, controling one's nerves, juadging the chance for a quick, mercifull kill is better than 90%, and then doing it), well yes. Even Abraham Maslow recognized the activity of hunting was high in "peak expereieces"

"End of story nothing more to it"-does that mean you've already prejudged, made up your mind and cannot be changed?


As a catholic, my Tradition allows that we humans very well had a long history on earth, evolving from more primitive forms. For millions of years the patterns of chase, stalk, and yes, the kill were wired into us. As humans with a moral soul we have to deal with it. Ethical hunting is a perfect way to face that side of us a deal with it in strict morality. Hunters learn things about reality in ways that our sheltered urban population does not--even the urban meat eaters who don't consider that wrap steaks and chops imply stockyards and slaughterhouses. Nature, life is not Bambi - or Disney's lie. BTW, Salter's book was far closer to the reality, despite the anthropomorphism.

 

[Gabriel]

As a catholic, my Tradition allows that we humans very well had a long history on earth, evolving from more primitive forms. For millions of years the patterns of chase, stalk, and yes, the kill were wired into us.

What? You're the first Catholic I met that believes in evolution.

 

[Brimshack]

I used to hunt. It was a good way to stock up the freezer for the winter. And I've always loved vennison. I always went on doe licenses though, the meat tastes better. And I do remember having mixed feelings about it. It's been a long time now, and I doubt I could hit the broad side of a barnj from 20 feet away at this point. So, it's probably best that I refrain from any further hunting expeditions.

 

[Gabriel]

I used to hunt. It was a good way to stock up the freezer for the winter. And I've always loved vennison. I always went on doe licenses though, the meat tastes better. And I do remember having mixed feelings about it. It's been a long time now, and I doubt I could hit the broad side of a barnj from 20 feet away at this point. So, it's probably best that I refrain from any further hunting expeditions.

Worried about a soldier getting a home cooked meal and a used to be hunter? You're starting to grow on me.

 

[Brimshack]

Thanks Gab, but I'm still a raging leftie.

I met my dad when he got off the plane from Vietnam. Funny thing is I didn't even realize I didn't remember him until mom said; 'there he is', and I realized I couldn't remember ever seeing the man in front of me before. I don't accept support for troops as requiring support for a war, or even passive acceptance. But whether the war is right or wrong, I figure somebody who served ought to get a measure of respect, and at least a good welcome.

Besides, I figured Alone would need some energy before we started butting heads again.

Oh, and I used to belong to the NRA, had the infamous bumper sticker and everything. Those days are over though.

 

[Lion of Narnia]

What? You're the first Catholic I met that believes in evolution.

For the Catholics you've met how often does the subject come up?

from the catechism: "159. "Faith and SCIENCE: 'Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth.'[Dei Filius 4: DS 3017.]"

 

[Arthur Dietrich]

Regulated hunting might be necessary and there are probably a good many honorable hunters...

But there are people who are just trigger happy. Hunting animals and killing them for the fun of it (often illegally). Acting like animals are inferior, mindless creatures with no feelings and no life. To me, that's hunting for sport. To hunt for the thrill of the kill. Or not even that...to hunt just because you're bored and have nothing better to do on a weekend XP

I'm reminded of a story I read...I think it was called "The Most Dangerous Game" by ??? in which people were hunted for sport. I think it was remade into an episode of Gilligan's Island XP

 

[Lion of Narnia]

I'm reminded of a story I read...I think it was called "The Most Dangerous Game" by ??? in which people were hunted for sport. I think it was remade into an episode of Gilligan's Island XP

Damon Runyon, I believe.