Human's purpose

[Mahammad]

What's the purpose of humans? This question troubled me for a long time. I don't think there's a purpose, and if there is, it's a purpose we share with all living things. Civilization doesn't prove that we are a special species. I started to review the Abrahamic purpose. I don't know how fool I was to honour such a purpose, I guess it's my human nature. As a child I was smart enough to recognize that my parents know "what's true".


Yesterday I asked myself whats better, existing randomly for no purpose? Or be someone else's slave for eternity?

God is a person, we share the same emotions, so as a person what makes him superior? Sitting on the throne? Imagine if you were on the throne and had the magic stick. Would you do what God did? Would you create billions of slaves and condemn them to hell for being what you created them to be? or Would you create something more meaningful? Why would you even bother with creating others? Unless you felt lonely, and even if you felt lonely why don't you create friends? Why slaves?

And Satan, the rebel, he's actually the good guy. He's fighting the slave-master. If freedom worth dying for, does freedom worth burning in hell for? Being subjective opened my eyes into many realizations. Human's purpose in Abrahamic religions is worse than not having a purpose, it's lower than the purpose of a dog.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did, convince me otherwise.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I too question the concept of hell. Why would all-loving all-compassionate creator punish with severe chastisement forever?

But God to me is a sure reality. Just as we have rights, God has the greatest right, and all rights are derived from his light. The greatest right that exists, is the right of God upon humanity. Our relationship with him should be that of Worship and as he is the Master, we are his servants. God is also the close to us because our spirits come from him. Ultimate Wisdom and love is God - and he created out of love and grace. The greatest love we should have is for God.

Now our purpose is for our well fare, and the greatest thing we can have in life, is a good relationship with our Lord. While this may not be the only purpose in life, it definitely is one of the reasons we are here. It gives us honor and virtue to honor the creator.

Now I would say aside from the relationship with the divine, is the purpose we have with other human beings. God established these relationships and I would say the ultimate purpose of them, would be to act according to God's light and Command, with each other.

God's light is in all things, and to journey to the light and ascend to the light is definitely one of the purposes in life.

 

[JJWhite]

God is a person, we share the same emotions, so as a person what makes him superior? Sitting on the throne?

????? What makes you say that these things are so? That's not the concept of God taught in Saudi schools?

 

[Mahammad]

I too question the concept of hell. Why would all-loving all-compassionate creator punish with severe chastisement forever?

But God to me is a sure reality. Just as we have rights, God has the greatest right, and all rights are derived from his light. The greatest right that exists, is the right of God upon humanity. Our relationship with him should be that of Worship and as he is the Master, we are his servants. God is also the close to us because our spirits come from him. Ultimate Wisdom and love is God - and he created out of love and grace. The greatest love we should have is for God.

Now our purpose is for our well fare, and the greatest thing we can have in life, is a good relationship with our Lord. While this may not be the only purpose in life, it definitely is one of the reasons we are here. It gives us honor and virtue to honor the creator.

Now I would say aside from the relationship with the divine, is the purpose we have with other human beings. God established these relationships and I would say the ultimate purpose of them, would be to act according to God's light and Command, with each other.

God's light is in all things, and to journey to the light and ascend to the light is definitely one of the purposes in life.

And how do you know all of that about God? A lot of what you said either has a conflict with the qur'an or isn't even in the book. The Qur'an says our purpose is to worship him as slaves. That's a pretty low purpose. I'd rather be a free bird than a slave ape.

 

[Mahammad]

????? What makes you say that these things are so? That's not the concept of God taught in Saudi schools?

The qur'an, bible, and hadiths are all filled with examples. God can be happy, angry, and sad. He can love and hate. He's extremely jealous, and vengeful. He claims to be the Most Merciful™, yeah right. He claims being just while alkitab almahfood proves otherwise. I guess like us, he can say a lie too. So he has emotions, and he's a person. If he thinks he's superior because he has the creation magic stick, then even if he's real I won't worship him. I'd rather burn in hell than humiliate myself in submission to the most arrogant person I ever heard of.

 

[AskTheFamily]

A.nd how do you know all of that about God?

Well I believe his light is in all things, and we can he see his light and to be of eternal origin and to be truth and with absolute basis to it.

As honor/greatness is seen to be of the eternal origin, all honor/greatness to be true, has to have an absolute basis.

Now love, mercy, compassion, at the ultimate must be ultimate life itself. And Ultimate Greatness would not lack any of these, and hence is Ultimate love, Ultimate Compassion, Ultimate Power, etc.

The Qur'an says our purpose is to worship him as slaves.

Yes according to the Quran, the purpose of life is to worship him. Would acting according to his light with regards to creation not be that of worshiping him as well? So maybe the purpose of that is united with the purpose of that.

That's a pretty low purpose. I'd rather be a free bird than a slave ape.

Well we either are servants of the Light or servants of the darkness. I would rather be free from the darkness, and be a slave of the light.

 

[JJWhite]

The qur'an, bible, and hadiths are all filled with examples. God can be happy, angry, and sad. He can love and hate. He's extremely jealous, and vengeful. He claims to be the Most Merciful™, yeah right. He claims being just while alkitab almahfood proves otherwise. I guess like us, he can say a lie too. So he has emotions, and he's a person. If he thinks he's superior because he has the creation magic stick, then even if he's real I won't worship him. I'd rather burn in hell than humiliate myself in submission to the most arrogant person I ever heard of.

Did you sleep during Tawheed class?

Ithbat as-sifaat bi laa tamtheel wa laa takyeef, etc... right? You can't take your limited understanding, thrust it upon God, and then say He's bad, because He's like this way I'm imagining Him to be.

I didn't attend the Saudi schools, but I've looked through their Tawheed books, and they seem to say pretty much the same things I learned at all the mutaaw'ah ladies' halqahs I attended year after year.

You do realize that if Islam's claims are correct, you're God's slave ANYWAY, whether you like it or not... whether you follow His commandments or not... whether you believe in Him or not.

 

[Mahammad]

You do realize that if Islam's claims are correct, you're God's slave ANYWAY, whether you like it or not... whether you follow His commandments or not... whether you believe in Him or not.

Yeah, we humans have such a "high" purpose according to Islam. But thank God I know Islam is wrong, I'm nobody's slave.

 

[Mahammad]

Well I believe his light is in all things, and we can he see his light and to be of eternal origin and to be truth and with absolute basis to it.

As honor/greatness is seen to be of the eternal origin, all honor/greatness to be true, has to have an absolute basis.

Now love, mercy, compassion, at the ultimate must be ultimate life itself. And Ultimate Greatness would not lack any of these, and hence is Ultimate love, Ultimate Compassion, Ultimate Power, etc.




Yes according to the Quran, the purpose of life is to worship him. Would acting according to his light with regards to creation not be that of worshiping him as well? So maybe the purpose of that is united with the purpose of that.

Well we either are servants of the Light or servants of the darkness. I would rather be free from the darkness, and be a slave of the light.

And how all things prove God's existence or "light"? What makes you think it doesn't reflect the light of two or three or a hundred gods?

 

[AskTheFamily]

And how all things prove God's existence or "light"?

Well the light within you has the property of being of eternal origin, and it can be seen to have that property.

And how all things prove God's existence or
What makes you think it doesn't reflect the light of two or three or a hundred gods?

Well once it's established Ultimate Greatness exists, we can know that whatever is Eternal is Ultimate Greatness. Ultimate Life would lack no life, and hence have no life besides it, but instead all life would be derived from it. All life that is derived from it is not eternal, and hence limited, while Ultimate Greatness is the Eternal and Alone then is worthy of veneration to the infinite degree. Since nothing is revered to the extent it is, then it's the only thing worthy of Worship, and hence the only God.

 

[JJWhite]

Personally.. I feel honored to serve the One Who has given me my life, and I feel it empowers me and gives me a freedom I doubt I would experience had I chosen a different belief system... if you don't see it that way.. b-kayfek.. 'alaa ra'yek.. faman shaa'a fal-yu'min wa man shaa'a fal-yakfur

 

[Glass*Soul]

Human beings do not have an innate purpose, but we are purpose making beings. It is one thing that characterizes our humanity. We make purpose.

We may ask how something or the other has come about, but if we want to know the purpose attached to an event, that is up to us.

 

[Tariki]

What's the purpose of humans? This question troubled me for a long time. I don't think there's a purpose, and if there is, it's a purpose we share with all living things. Civilization doesn't prove that we are a special species. I started to review the Abrahamic purpose. I don't know how fool I was to honour such a purpose, I guess it's my human nature. As a child I was smart enough to recognize that my parents know "what's true".


Yesterday I asked myself whats better, existing randomly for no purpose? Or be someone else's slave for eternity?

God is a person, we share the same emotions, so as a person what makes him superior? Sitting on the throne? Imagine if you were on the throne and had the magic stick. Would you do what God did? Would you create billions of slaves and condemn them to hell for being what you created them to be? or Would you create something more meaningful? Why would you even bother with creating others? Unless you felt lonely, and even if you felt lonely why don't you create friends? Why slaves?

And Satan, the rebel, he's actually the good guy. He's fighting the slave-master. If freedom worth dying for, does freedom worth burning in hell for? Being subjective opened my eyes into many realizations. Human's purpose in Abrahamic religions is worse than not having a purpose, it's lower than the purpose of a dog.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did, convince me otherwise.

Mahammad, I can only speak as I see it. For me the Divine seeks to share "his" own being with us, as far as is possible. I understand the "divine" as being pure freedom, therefore to share "his" nature is to be free. Slavery for me is being bound by the constraints of a "self" that sees itself as the centre of all things and autonomous - in my own experience such a stance creates a mask, a persona, that we busily build and wrap with experiences and justifications, but which can only become an illusion that is, at least to my eyes, the deepest slavery.

 

[BruceDLimber]

The Baha'i Faith states our purpose here is twofold:
· As individuals, to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both now and in the Next Life.
· In aggregate, to carry forward an ever-advancing civilization.

And the purpose of religion is to show us HOW to go about these!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Khalliqa]

Human beings do not have an innate purpose, but we are purpose making beings. It is one thing that characterizes our humanity. We make purpose.

We may ask how something or the other has come about, but if we want to know the purpose attached to an event, that is up to us.

This is exactly what I was going to say..

 

[bling]

What's the purpose of humans? This question troubled me for a long time. I don't think there's a purpose, and if there is, it's a purpose we share with all living things. Civilization doesn't prove that we are a special species. I started to review the Abrahamic purpose. I don't know how fool I was to honour such a purpose, I guess it's my human nature. As a child I was smart enough to recognize that my parents know "what's true".


Yesterday I asked myself whats better, existing randomly for no purpose? Or be someone else's slave for eternity?

God is a person, we share the same emotions, so as a person what makes him superior? Sitting on the throne? Imagine if you were on the throne and had the magic stick. Would you do what God did? Would you create billions of slaves and condemn them to hell for being what you created them to be? or Would you create something more meaningful? Why would you even bother with creating others? Unless you felt lonely, and even if you felt lonely why don't you create friends? Why slaves?

And Satan, the rebel, he's actually the good guy. He's fighting the slave-master. If freedom worth dying for, does freedom worth burning in hell for? Being subjective opened my eyes into many realizations. Human's purpose in Abrahamic religions is worse than not having a purpose, it's lower than the purpose of a dog.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, if I did, convince me otherwise.

You show a lot of wisdom in your questions and comments.

If God is all knowing and all powerful He would not need anything and man (a created being) could not provide anything for God.

Since God can be anything He “wants”, He could avoid being anything less than perfect that perfection would include unselfish, unconditional Love.

If God did have that type Love He would not be trying to get anything from humans but would be trying to give a wonderful something to humans. The greatest thing he could give would be this force that compels even God to do all He does (Love) and thus become like God.

If God has been around forever He would have developed the greatest of the greatest attributes. Of all God’s attributes the best “Love” would be the greatest, controlling all other attributes (Love is thus the most power force in all universes). God which is described in the Bible as Love would be compelled by His Love to make beings that could Love like He Loves. Unfortunately, Godly type Love cannot be directly programmed into the being (instinctive) for that love would be a robotic type of love. If God forces the Love on the being (take it or I torture you) that would not be Loving on God’s part and again would not be Godly type Love. God has to allow (give up some of his power) beings to have free will and choose (it must be a real choice and not forced) Love over some likely alternative (in our case it is the perceived pleasures of sin for a season).

We have the earthly objective (that can only be done on earth) of obtaining Godly type Love so we can Love God and others with all our heart, soul, mind and energy. Love is defined by all Christ said and did (you can also look at 1 Cor. 13 and 1 John 4.) Obtaining Love is accepting it as a free undeserving and unconditional gift (Charity). Man due to survival instincts does not like to accept charity especially from a Giver that paid a huge price. The easiest way to accept it is to accept God’s forgiveness (…he that is forgiven much will Love much…)

God’s objective is the most unselfish objective (an attribute of Godly Love) in that God is doing all He can to help people (those willing to accept His help since they have free will) to fulfill their objective. That “all” includes allowing Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kinds, some unwilling individuals to go to hell, and even sinning.

 

[Mahammad]

Well the light within you has the property of being of eternal origin, and it can be seen to have that property.

Can you explain how? What do you mean by light within me?

Well once it's established Ultimate Greatness exists, we can know that whatever is Eternal is Ultimate Greatness. Ultimate Life would lack no life, and hence have no life besides it, but instead all life would be derived from it. All life that is derived from it is not eternal, and hence limited, while Ultimate Greatness is the Eternal and Alone then is worthy of veneration to the infinite degree. Since nothing is revered to the extent it is, then it's the only thing worthy of Worship, and hence the only God.

What are these teachings? They don't look Islamic.

 

[Mahammad]

Personally.. I feel honored to serve the One Who has given me my life, and I feel it empowers me and gives me a freedom I doubt I would experience had I chosen a different belief system... if you don't see it that way.. b-kayfek.. 'alaa ra'yek.. faman shaa'a fal-yu'min wa man shaa'a fal-yakfur

You are right about religion empowering you, or helping you psychologically, but it's not exclusive to Islam. I agree with the last part.

 

[Mahammad]

Human beings do not have an innate purpose, but we are purpose making beings. It is one thing that characterizes our humanity. We make purpose.

We may ask how something or the other has come about, but if we want to know the purpose attached to an event, that is up to us.

I disagree, we are not different than animals, we are evolving and everything we do or make is natural. We don't choose who we become in a "freewill" sense. I used to think like you until I discovered evolutionary psychology.


We don't make purposes, we evolved to require more purposes, other mammals and even birds share a lot of our purposes. The least animals with number of purposes are reptiles. Our brains control us, not the other way around.

 

[Mahammad]

Mahammad, I can only speak as I see it. For me the Divine seeks to share "his" own being with us, as far as is possible. I understand the "divine" as being pure freedom, therefore to share "his" nature is to be free. Slavery for me is being bound by the constraints of a "self" that sees itself as the centre of all things and autonomous - in my own experience such a stance creates a mask, a persona, that we busily build and wrap with experiences and justifications, but which can only become an illusion that is, at least to my eyes, the deepest slavery.

What if I'm bad naturally but I wear a mask of goodness, should I be free?