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Humans aren't apes... but biologically how?

xianghua

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I've yet to meet any creationist that can tell us what a "Kind" is, biologically, and how they can somehow produce all sorts of 'sub-Kinds' in a short time.
maybe you should meet more creationists

and yet any kid can tell that a chimp, gorila or orangutan are monkey like creature and human isnt. this is why any kid will call them "monkeys".
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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Humans have never evolved away from being apes. We have arms with fully extending elbows ( monkeys don’t) a hyperflexible shoulder girdle which allows our arms to hang freely and swing around ( again,monkeys don’t) a scapula that is in the back( ditto) a wide flattened rib cage (ditto) . All traits for tree swinging . We can tree-swing (gymnasts do it easily) but we also have very long legs which makes this more difficult.
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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its also true for human and a rabit. are you a rabit then?
. We both have a sarcopterygian based skull roof and brain case . We’re both tetrapods, we’re both bilaterians ; we both have eucaryotic cells; we’re both vertebrates; we’re both placental mammals etc etc etc. Rabbits are closely related to the Rodentia and so are the Primates
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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its also true for human and a rabit. are you a rabit then?
No,just a close relative

Oh Just in case you didn’t figure it out monkeys don’t treeswing they’re quadrupeds and walk on top of the branches
 
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tas8831

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maybe you should meet more creationists

Yet you provide no definition of Kind.

Also, I have encountered hundreds of creationists, to include several "professionals". None have defined Kind in any meaningful way. The closest I have seen to a real definition is that "Kind" is somewhere around the level of Family or Genus or even Class, depending on the bible tale they are attempting to save.
and yet any kid can tell that a chimp, gorila or orangutan are monkey like creature and human isnt. this is why any kid will call them "monkeys".

Most of the kids I know look at a chimp or a gorilla or an orang and marvel at how similar they are to us.

Saw a kid in a zoo one time roll a ball to a juvenile mandrill, and was shocked that it did not roll the ball back. If this kid knew they were so different, why do you suppose he expected the mandrill to roll the ball back?
 
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tas8831

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so where is the limit that a human will not be consider as ape then? by 90% similarity? 70%? 50%?

Funny - I have asked professional YECs why they do not perform sequence analyses on taxa that they feel are part of a 'Kind', and I never get an answer.

I suspect this is because the creationists are afraid that they will find a greater sequence dissimilarity between taxa they think belong to the same Kind than there is between human and chimp, and they will be left having to dream up d hoc excuses and made even bigger fools of themselves.
 
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PsychoSarah

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so where is the limit that a human will not be consider as ape then? by 90% similarity? 70%? 50%?
-_- well, all the great apes are over 90% genetically similar. However, animal taxonomy, while influenced by genetics, isn't determined purely by genetics. For humans to not be apes, we'd have to lack at least one of the basic qualifying traits, such as shoulder mobility due to the dorsal position of the scapula. As it is, humans have all of the qualifying traits and the genetic similarity to justify being in the ape superfamily.

Basically, it'd take many millions of years more of evolutionary divergence for our descendants to no longer belong to the same superfamily as orangutans, let alone chimpanzees. And those descendants wouldn't be the same species as ourselves. That is, Homo sapiens will never cease to be a species that is an ape.
 
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PsychoSarah

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maybe you should meet more creationists

and yet any kid can tell that a chimp, gorila or orangutan are monkey like creature and human isnt. this is why any kid will call them "monkeys".
-_- and those kids would be incorrect, seeing as a chimp, while perhaps superficially looking like a monkey to some people, objectively is physically more similar to a human than any monkey.

And I'll remind you again that the reason humans look so "distinctly human" to you is due to the structure in the human brain that has the specialized function for recognizing humans. This is why humans stand out to you compared to other animals, not because of any objective separation between humans and other animals.
 
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tas8831

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I see that pshun has been active on other forums as recently as April 2. Interesting.
 
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xianghua

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are you saying that human doesnt realy look different compare to other apes?
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Euarchontoglires are one of my favorite super-orders, and not just because I am one.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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and yet any kid can tell that a chimp, gorila or orangutan are monkey like creature and human isnt. this is why any kid will call them "monkeys".

Maybe that kid can explain to us why we call our fellow hominids "anthropoids".
 
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loveofourlord

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unfortunetly thats not how this works, they ignore the "junk" DNA, because they are focusing on the parts that we know don't readily mutate, the goal is to compare the important differences such as sequences and such that encode for proteins. Also getting a exact % as I've pointed out before is tough because depends on criteria.

Is:

Thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog becoming
Thequickbrownfoxjumpsverthelsazydog

2 changes or 14? One insertion one deletion so 2, but at the same time 14 have been changed position.

what about.

superhappycattle becoming
superhapelttacyp 1 change, or 8?

or both becoming

Thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydogsuperhappycattle 1 change, or 16?

We see these changes in the DNA all over the place, combining of chromosones such as human chromosone 2, or some parts flipped and such so it's not as easy as lining up the DNA and cross referencing them.

And same designer, same design falls apart when you realize how much junk DNA is there, and when I say junk I'm talking about the parts of DNA that we don't use, but encode for things our ancestors used and so on.
 
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Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
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Some Junk DNA aka non protein forming DNA does have some regulatory usage. Pseudogenes do sometimes form strings of amino acids which then get degraded . By forming those useless temporary strings the body doesn’t overproduce the protein and keeps the number of transfer rna units the same . I’m assuming that you mean the totally useless stuff
 
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loveofourlord

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well some yeah, but they are harder to detect, where as it's easier to look for coding genes, since they code for things they are more likly to be preserved over longer times, and only neutral or important changes are likly to be preseved. So they look at the parts that likly make up the bulk of the genetic differenecs between us and apes.
 
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