Human Sacrifice

[WittyBanter]

When you read Bible verses like Judges 11 verses 30 - 40 , [the gist is that Jephthah needs to win a battle, asks God for help, and God answers because Jephthah promises to MURDER whatsoever comes out from his doors, and God made that whatsoever be his only child] do you not think that maybe, just maybe, that the god of the bible isn't a benevolent being at all?
I mean, this guy is really dipped in blood here. God gives Jep the ability to slaughter tons of foes, in exchange for the man's daughter. Does this not seem.... evil?

 

[AuraTwilight]

"But it's not because he's God, and he can do whatever he wants and he'll be in the right because he knows everything. Praise Jesus!"

 

[rebelEnigma]

When you read Bible verses like Judges 11 verses 30 - 40 , [the gist is that Jephthah needs to win a battle, asks God for help, and God answers because Jephthah promises to MURDER whatsoever comes out from his doors, and God made that whatsoever be his only child] do you not think that maybe, just maybe, that the god of the bible isn't a benevolent being at all?

God was going to deliver the Ammonites into Jephthah's hands anyway, there was not need for him to make such an offer. It was very, very wrong for him to do so, not the least because it was a very foolish thing to say to begin with.

I mean, this guy is really dipped in blood here. God gives Jep the ability to slaughter tons of foes, in exchange for the man's daughter. Does this not seem.... evil?

Jephthah made the offer and I'm certain God refused it, but He still gave the Ammonites into his hands. Jephthah was the wrong one here, not God.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

God was going to deliver the Ammonites into Jephthah's hands anyway, there was not need for him to make such an offer. It was very, very wrong for him to do so, not the least because it was a very foolish thing to say to begin with.



Jephthah made the offer and I'm certain God refused it, but He still gave the Ammonites into his hands. Jephthah was the wrong one here, not God.

Yes, completely agreed. God made no fault, but man made the choice to perform the actions you question.

 

[WittyBanter]

Why didn't God stop him? Jephthah's daughter went into the mountains for 2 months before he killed her.
Moreover, why would Jephthah even think for one moment that God wanted a potential human sacrifice?

 

[SonicBOOM]

When you read Bible verses like Judges 11 verses 30 - 40 , [the gist is that Jephthah needs to win a battle, asks God for help, and God answers because Jephthah promises to MURDER whatsoever comes out from his doors, and God made that whatsoever be his only child] do you not think that maybe, just maybe, that the god of the bible isn't a benevolent being at all?
I mean, this guy is really dipped in blood here. God gives Jep the ability to slaughter tons of foes, in exchange for the man's daughter. Does this not seem.... evil?

Israelly ritual was very key to who the israelites were. I believe passages like this are more referring to the Israelites desires rather than God's. Does God "tweak" the rulebook for the culture of his people? I believe he does... Jesus says that the law of divorce in the Old Testament was given because the Israelites hearts were hard. Perhaps this is another one of those laws or rituals that God kind of "allows"

 

[rebelEnigma]

Why didn't God stop him? Jephthah's daughter went into the mountains for 2 months before he killed her.

I don't know the mind of God, man. I have no idea why God didn't stop him.

Moreover, why would Jephthah even think for one moment that God wanted a potential human sacrifice?

That's the thing: he wasn't thinking. He blurted it out without thinking. In his mind, he thought that he better vow to do something big so that God would know that he was desperate. All he had to do was say, "God, I need help. Please help me" and that was it, no need to sacrifice your daughter.

Perhaps this is another one of those laws or rituals that God kind of "allows"

Sacrificing your child is not something that God allows. As a matter of fact, it was one of the reasons why he had the Cannonites annihilated: they sacrificed their children to Molech. While Jephthah didn't sacrifice to Molech, it was still a human sacrifice that not only was not condoned, but forbidden.

 

[NavyGuy7]

Perhaps by stopping him, a worse calamity could have arisen. And human sacrifice is wrong, God knows this and abhors such sinful practices. It says repeatedly in the Bible that he is a just God, and hates sin. Don't mistake the actions of a man for the actions of God.

 

[elcapitan]

Israelly ritual was very key to who the israelites were. I believe passages like this are more referring to the Israelites desires rather than God's.

Exactly. So far so good.

Does God "tweak" the rulebook for the culture of his people? I believe he does... Jesus says that the law of divorce in the Old Testament was given because the Israelites hearts were hard. Perhaps this is another one of those laws or rituals that God kind of "allows"

God "allows" laws and rituals like this? I'm not buying it.

Regardless, it was Jephthah who killed the daughters, not God. Jephthah could have easily gone back on his vow, and remained a better person for it.

Furthermore, the idea that God would fulfill that vow seems to be against the nature of an all-loving God in the first place.

Just my opinion.

 

[MarcusHill]

So God can say "Whoa, hold on" to Abraham when he was about to kill Isaac at God's behest, but he can't even do the same to stop Jephthah killing his daughter?

 

[SonicBOOM]

God "allows" laws and rituals like this? I'm not buying it.

Regardless, it was Jephthah who killed the daughters, not God. Jephthah could have easily gone back on his vow, and remained a better person for it.

Furthermore, the idea that God would fulfill that vow seems to be against the nature of an all-loving God in the first place.

Just my opinion.

ok hang on, let me take a look at the passage itself. Your right that human sacrifice was probably the highest offense in the israeli law and there is no way that can be looked at with a just eye.

30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD : "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.
34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."
36 "My father," she replied, "you have given your word to the LORD. Do to me just as you promised, now that the LORD has avenged you of your enemies, the Ammonites. 37 But grant me this one request," she said. "Give me two months to roam the hills and weep with my friends, because I will never marry."
38 "You may go," he said. And he let her go for two months. She and the girls went into the hills and wept because she would never marry. 39 After the two months, she returned to her father and he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
From this comes the Israelite custom 40 that each year the young women of Israel go out for four days to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite.

ok this is easier to answer than I thought. First off God never agrees to this vow... yet the law says that a vow made to the Lord is a vow kept. This is a foolish vow Jephthah made and it's situations like this that provoke Jesus into telling his people not to make vows at all! God didn't agree to this vow... Jephthah foolishly made the vow without any discernement. He was desperate to catch his enemies and as a result he became very foolish with his vows.



his daughter entered the room... this is pure coincidence. God doesn't control the wills of his people... so Jephthah's daughter was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. During the entire scene God never says a word.... how do you even know that this was his will in the first place??? It prolly wasn't!

 

[elcapitan]

During the entire scene God never says a word.... how do you even know that this was his will in the first place??? It prolly wasn't!

Exactly.

I still don't see why Jephthah couldn't have broken the vow. I don't think that just because it's the "law" means that it was better to murder than to break the vow. Isn't murder against said laws? There's even a commandment forbidding it.

 

[SonicBOOM]

Exactly.

I still don't see why Jephthah couldn't have broken the vow. I don't think that just because it's the "law" means that it was better to murder than to break the vow. Isn't murder against said laws? There's even a commandment forbidding it.

right... but Jephthah doesn't know this. All he knows is he made a vow and now he has to keep it. For all we know God is screaming at him "don't do it, don't do it". We can only hear God when we listen for him...... so perhaps the reason why he was "silent" was because no one was listening for him. Or perhaps he DID speak and he was dismissed. In Abraham's situation Isaac was rescued because Abraham heard God say "stop! Don't do it!". However... Jephthah prolly doesn't hear this voice and thats prolly why it goes unrecorded.

 

[MarcusHill]

So an omnipotent god can't make people hear him if he wants to be heard. Gotcha.

 

[SonicBOOM]

So an omnipotent god can't make people hear him if he wants to be heard. Gotcha.

God doesn't MAKE us do anything. that would be completely missing the point of creation itself. However... there's no possable positive outcome in having a free-will debate. Christain people have answered this quistion so many times.... but it seems no one likes our answers.

 

[MarcusHill]

God doesn't MAKE us do anything. that would be completely missing the point of creation itself. However... there's no possable positive outcome in having a free-will debate. Christain people have answered this quistion so many times.... but it seems no one likes our answers.

I don't think making someone hear him is a huge infringement on free will. He could easily have said "I'm still cool with the whole victory thing if you don't kill your kid" and still left it up to Jephthah to decide whether to do so or not.

 

[SonicBOOM]

I don't think making someone hear him is a huge infringement on free will. He could easily have said "I'm still cool with the whole victory thing if you don't kill your kid" and still left it up to Jephthah to decide whether to do so or not.

yeah that makes sense. However throughout the old testiment it's pretty clear that people simply don't listen to God. I can see how God can make his voice loud enough to get his people's attention... however you even agree with me that it's still the person's choice to listen to him when he speaks. Perhaps Jephthah heard the voice of God but dismissed it... or maybe he didn't believe it was God because the voice tells him to "break the law". That right there is enough to show the dangers of being to law motivated.

Also.... it's worth saying that anyone who fails to hear God in a small voice will fail to hear him in a large voice. The reason behind this is that if we aren't listening for him than we have no desire to hear what he says in the first place. I'm not talking about hearing in the physical sense... I'm talking about in the spiritual sense. Hearing in the spiritual sense is simply a desire to listen. This is what Jesus meant when he said "he who has ears, let him hear". Everyone has ears! Though.... he was talking about the spiritual ear, which is simply the person's will to listen.

 

[RavenPoe]

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. Omniopotent god lets innocent daughter die. More at 11.

 

[JGL53]

yeah that makes sense. However throughout the old testiment it's pretty clear that people simply don't listen to God. I can see how God can make his voice loud enough to get his people's attention... however you even agree with me that it's still the person's choice to listen to him when he speaks. Perhaps Jephthah heard the voice of God but dismissed it... or maybe he didn't believe it was God because the voice tells him to "break the law". That right there is enough to show the dangers of being to law motivated.

Also.... it's worth saying that anyone who fails to hear God in a small voice will fail to hear him in a large voice. The reason behind this is that if we aren't listening for him than we have no desire to hear what he says in the first place. I'm not talking about hearing in the physical sense... I'm talking about in the spiritual sense. Hearing in the spiritual sense is simply a desire to listen. This is what Jesus meant when he said "he who has ears, let him hear". Everyone has ears! Though.... he was talking about the spiritual ear, which is simply the person's will to listen.

None of this makes any sense to me whatsoever.

Either I do not understand the meaning of the phrase "omnipotent being" or you don't.

 

[SonicBOOM]

what kind of answer would you guys like?? God is all powerful but he's also beyond my understanding [or yours]. Yet he's worked things out in my life that only makes sense to me later on. So i know he's got things under control. Thats the best answer I got, take it or leave it.