Human Population

[hisgrace26]

I'm not a mathematician but I'd like to figure out how the creation model started with 8 people and arrived at today's current population growth? Suppose we have an average rate of 2.5 children in a family, as a result that would yeild 6.5 billion (I think it's about 6.8 now) people today. But from the evolution model it is believe that humans has been around since 1 million years ago, nonetheless there must be a growth from that point, so if we assume the same rate we would get more than the number of electrons in the universe. Using the biblical number that make sense. But how do we work around the birth/death rates? Anybody have an idea? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[matthewgar]

I'm not a mathematician but I'd like to figure out how the creation model started with 8 people and arrived at today's current population growth? Suppose we have an average rate of 2.5 children in a family, as a result that would yeild 6.5 billion (I think it's about 6.8 now) people today. But from the evolution model it is believe that humans has been around since 1 million years ago, nonetheless there must be a growth from that point, so if we assume the same rate we would get more than the number of electrons in the universe. Using the biblical number that make sense. But how do we work around the birth/death rates? Anybody have an idea? What are your thoughts on this?

well duhh it's simple, the earth can't be older then 3 days, so the earth can't be 6000 years, bacteria disrpvoe creationism, and evolution :>

 

[Targ]

I'm not a mathematician but I'd like to figure out how the creation model started with 8 people and arrived at today's current population growth? Suppose we have an average rate of 2.5 children in a family, as a result that would yeild 6.5 billion (I think it's about 6.8 now) people today. But from the evolution model it is believe that humans has been around since 1 million years ago, nonetheless there must be a growth from that point, so if we assume the same rate we would get more than the number of electrons in the universe. Using the biblical number that make sense. But how do we work around the birth/death rates? Anybody have an idea? What are your thoughts on this?

Neither humans nor any other animal follow a consistent rate of unceasing population growth. In human history, there have been numerous periods where the population has declined, as a result of factors such as disease, wars and natural disasters.

We've actually discussed this subject on this forum within the last week. See my comments on the subject here and here.

 

[matthewgar]

Neither humans nor any other animal follow a consistent rate of unceasing population growth. In human history, there have been numerous periods where the population has declined, as a result of factors such as disease, wars and natural disasters.

We've actually discussed this subject on this forum within the last week. See my comments on the subject here and here.

Not to mention, untill we started to join together in cities and such, most of humanity was in isolated groups. Ignoring the problem of Bacteria.

 

[Bushido216]

Forgetting the population bottleneck circa Noah's Flood.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not a mathematician but I'd like to figure out how the creation model started with 8 people and arrived at today's current population growth?

What does this have to do with the 'creation model'?

And the creation model started* with two people, not eight.

* Ended, actually.

 

[Delphiki]

What does this have to do with the 'creation model'?

And the creation model started* with two people, not eight.

* Ended, actually.

Didn't population reset to only 8 with the flood?

 

[Delphiki]

Is there a creationist population chart floating around in the internet somewhere?

I slapped together a couple simple formulas in Excel to see what the world population throughout history woudl have looked like having only started with 8 people (post-flood) in 2500 BCE (4500 years ago).

What I put together doesn't even account for plagues or wars or anything that would have stagnated population growth, so this should also give an advantage to the argument of the flood-believers.

In order to start with 8 people in 2500 BCE and end up with 6.5 billion people in 2010, you need a population growth rate of roughly 157.77% per century. This means that in the first century, Noah and family would only have to make the population 13 people in the next hundred years (8 * 1.5777 = 12.62). The next hundred years, the population only needs to be about 20 people (12.62 * 1.5777 = 19.91), and so on. By the time you reach 2000 CE, the formula yields a population of 6.5 billion. Everyone following so far?

Well this is fine and dandy, and seems like a pretty realistic population growth rate, except that this means there were only somewhere between 500,000 and 700,000 people on the face of the planet when the Roman empire came to be. Sounds like a lot, except the Roman empire alone actually averaged a population of about 55 million people.

Think that's funny? How about a scant 300 people on the face of the earth during the old Babylonian period. I wonder how many of these people were Babylonians? 20? 60? 100? Not a very big city.


Ok, ok. Maybe we'll get better numbers if I just add an average population per century until we end up with 6.5 billion for today. I would need to add 141 million each century. Already the problems arise. Noah and his family alone would have to supply the first 141 million people. Then, his descendants, the next 141 million, and so on.

But for 8 people to make 141 million grand kids and great grand kids in just 100 years?

Joking aside, it's clearly a mathematical impossibility that we started with only 8 people in 2500 BC, especially when you compare the known populations of cities in various periods.

You know those people that calculated how fast Santa would have to be traveling to deliver all those presents in one night? Yeah, it's kinda like that.

 

[AV1611VET]

Didn't population reset to only 8 with the flood?

The 'creation model' doesn't reset.

Are you talking the Creation or the Flood?

Either way, I'm sure God assisted in making sure the conditions would be favorable for repopulation.

Note the rate of population growth in Egypt:

Exodus 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.
Exodus 1:20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

 

[Delphiki]

The point is, if you're a creationist trying to calculate population growth, anything before the flood is irrelevant - unless you don't believe the flood killed everyone but Noah's family. Don't play stupid.

 

[AV1611VET]

The point is, if you're a creationist trying to calculate population growth, anything before the flood is irrelevant - unless you don't believe the flood killed everyone but Noah's family. Don't play stupid.

Then don't bring creationism into the conversation by calling it the 'creation model'.

The Flood was not -- repeat: not -- a part of the creation model.

That's like saying the Big Bang model says it's going to rain tomorrow.

 

[matthewgar]

The 'creation model' doesn't reset.

Are you talking the Creation or the Flood?

Either way, I'm sure God assisted in making sure the conditions would be favorable for repopulation.

Note the rate of population growth in Egypt:

Exodus 1:19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.
Exodus 1:20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

Yes, but were not birds where the female can pop out multiple births a year, the numbers required would have showed up somewhere, it would turn every single woman into a clown car, and even if that was possible, it ignores how things happened at that time, woman might have alot of kids, but thats because most didn't survive to adulthood. Thats also ignoring the fact that were talking populations in china/egypt, and other areas some furthere away then the time to travel would allow with full civilizations. How did china get a popultaion big enough that it repopulated after the flood with same culture, history and such it had pre flood?

 

[AV1611VET]

How did china get a popultaion big enough that it repopulated after the flood with same culture, history and such it had pre flood?

China didn't exist, pre-flood.

China came from Noah's great grandson, Canaan:

Genesis 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

QV please for details on the population after the Flood: The Sixteen Grandsons of Noah.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

China didn't exist, pre-flood.

China came from Noah's great grandson, Canaan:

Genesis 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,

QV please for details on the population after the Flood: The Sixteen Grandsons of Noah.

I'm truly amazed at the poo-poo you guys make up. How did you even have a straight face when you typed this?

 

[matthewgar]

well duhhhh china was in a time warp that allowed it to compress 1000 years of history into 100.

 

[Delphiki]

8

Or is showing the population growth as a mathematic impossibility going to also go unnoticed?

Also, there are more civilizations to consider than just China. The archaic mesoamerican cultures and Mesopotamia also seem to have gone undisturbed during this alleged global flood.

Also, it's not necessarily that Chinese civilization predated the flood, it's the seemingly spontaneous boom in population a few hundred years after the flood, in parallel to the population of the rest of the world.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

8

Or is showing the population growth as a mathematic impossibility going to also go unnoticed?

Also, there are more civilizations to consider than just China. The archaic mesoamerican cultures and Mesopotamia also seem to have gone undisturbed during this alleged global flood.

Also, it's not necessarily that Chinese civilization predated the flood, it's the seemingly spontaneous boom in population a few hundred years after the flood, in parallel to the population of the rest of the world.

I think it's Shermer who points out that the Sumerians were developing beer at the time of the "flood."

 

[matthewgar]

I think it's Shermer who points out that the Sumerians were developing beer at the time of the "flood."

well maybe being under hundreds of feet of salt water, makes beer much much better, along with the salt water added rather then fresh water..:>

 

[Delphiki]

I think it's Shermer who points out that the Sumerians were developing beer at the time of the "flood."

Looked up the dynasty for post-flood Sumeria.. Turns out to be the Lagash dynasty. World population at that time: 31

Maybe they should rename it to The Frat Party Dynasty.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I have posted this before but it seems to fit well here.

Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World | The Onion - America's Finest News Source