Howdy All!

[AV1611VET]

Another interesting fun fact for you is that in the Latin Vulgate, 2 Pet 1:19 refers to Jesus as Lucifer!

I'm familiar with that one.

Modern translations perpetuate that idea.

Example:

2 Peter 1:19 [NIV] We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Isaiah 14:12 [NIV] How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

The King James Bible gives us Satan's angelic name, and does not equate him with Jesus in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I'm familiar with that one.

Modern translations perpetuate that idea.

Example:

2 Peter 1:19 [NIV] We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Isaiah 14:12 [NIV] How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

The King James Bible gives us Satan's angelic name, and does not equate him with Jesus in any way, shape, or form.

No, they do not.

The modern translations accurately translate the underlying Hebrew word helel which literally means "shining one." There is also nothing wrong with "Lucifer" so long as it is properly defined and understood. The word "Lucifer" did not exist until the Latin language was developed and it was used in the Latin Vulgate and Douay-Rheims before the King James was published in 1611! Secondly, the speaker is primarily addressing the King of Babylon while secondarily addressing the angel currently known as Satan.

The full phrase is helel ben-sahar which literally means "shining one, son of the dawn." I know very little about Hebrew, just enough to use tools and references to look things up. "Helel Ben-Shachar" sounds like it could be some Jewish rabbi down the street! If I were the one writing all of the "Left Behind" books, I believe I would much rather use this name for the Anti-Christ rather than Nicolae Carpathia! Why doesn't anyone use this as Satan's "angelic" name? Actually, it would be a cool user name for a forum participant - especially if you were a skeptic or unbeliever!

The King James Bible therefore DOES NOT give us Satan's "angelic" name unless perhaps you are insinuating the King James translators had some extra revelation that the original author was not privy to? You're not a "Ruckmanite" are you?

I got no issues with one preferring the King James over other versions and I still consider myself to be "King James Preferred" as well. I just fail to see the vast satanic conspiracy that certain KJV-Only types often decry. I am more worried about those who pervert the word of God while using the King James Bible or any other translation for that matter!

 

[Michie]

Well anyway, welcome to CF.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Well anyway, welcome to CF.

LOL! Thanks!

Are we having fun yet?

 

[Michie]

LOL! Thanks!

Are we having fun yet?

This kind of fun belongs in General Theology actually.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

This kind of fun belongs in General Theology actually.

You're probably right but I'm glad folks are making me feel right at home!

 

[AV1611VET]

No, they do not.

Either that, or they do.

Where the King James differs from the Originals, the Originals are wrong.

You're not a "Ruckmanite" are you?

Yes -- to a point.

And are you familiar with the works of Gail A Riplinger?

 

[AV1611VET]

You're probably right but I'm glad folks are making me feel right at home!

Yes.

It's nice to have you here, where we can do our part in fulfilling the Great Commission.

You're in for a doosey of a ride though!

These guys are smart!

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Yes.

It's nice to have you here, where we can do our part in fulfilling the Great Commission.

You're in for a doosey of a ride though!

These guys are smart!

Dude, you are a riot! We may butt heads at times but I think we'll have a good time at it! Appreciate your sense of humor.

Yeah, there are some good folks here and will keep me on my toes. Hope to return the favor.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Lucifer was the Latin translation for the underlying Hebrew word helel in Isaiah 14:12 and is also used in the King James and Douay-Rhemes English translations. In the Greek Septuagint, it is translated as ὁ ἑωσφόρος (eosphorus) which means "light bringer" or day bringer and the English word "Phosphorus" is a transliteration.

With all this said, it seems clear that "Lucifer" was never intended as the "Proper Name" for the angel now referred to as Satan which interestingly, is a transliteration of the Hebrew word hasatan which means "adversary, opponent, or one who withstands" and it is interesting that in Numbers 22:32, where the Angel of the Lord withstands Balaam, the phrase "to withstand thee" is translated from lesatan so is the Angel of the Lord being referred to as "Satan?"

Another interesting fun fact for you is that in the Latin Vulgate, 2 Pet 1:19 refers to Jesus as Lucifer!

Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem: cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernæ lucenti in caliginoso donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:​

​

Ya'll have fun now!

Right, but the interpretive, underlying historical fact is that we all know, our should know, the Latin Vulgate is, itself, a translation. So, it's sort of a moot point in my estimation. But thanks for the previous details about the intended reference of "Lucifer."

OH,............ and welcome to CF!

 

[Diamond72]

* cough *

Even thou dost admit that the KJV only worketh when thou useth an outdated dictionary. Verily, no one knoweth what thou sayest because of thy colloquial tongue.

 

[AV1611VET]

Even thou dost admit that the KJV only worketh when thou useth an outdated dictionary. Verily, no one knoweth what thou sayest because of thy colloquial tongue.

Sayest thou.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Sayest thou.

Hey bud, I just noticed on your profile that you are either from Guam or are living there right now? I was stationed there in the Navy back in 1984-1985! HC-5, NAS Agana (now HSC-25 based at Anderson AFB). I attended Temple Baptist in Chalan Pago and got my scuba certification while I was there. Best scuba diving in the world! Are you there in the military or are you a native Guamanian?

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey bud, I just noticed on your profile that you are either from Guam or are living there right now? I was stationed there in the Navy back in 1984-1985! HC-5, NAS Agana (now HSC-25 based at Anderson AFB). I attended Temple Baptist in Chalan Pago and got my scuba certification while I was there. Best scuba diving in the world! Are you there in the military or are you a native Guamanian?

Hey, there!

I salute you for your service!

I was on Guam from 1973 - 1976 at NCS in Finegayan.

Guam is where my heart is, so I use that in my profile.

Wife and I lived in Tumon Village, then moved on base in Finegayan.

Had friends up at Andersen at the time.

Got hit by Supertyphoon Pamela just ten days before we left the island!

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Hey, there!

I salute you for your service!

I was on Guam from 1973 - 1976 at NCS in Finegayan.

Guam is where my heart is, so I use that in my profile.

Wife and I lived in Tumon Village, then moved on base in Finegayan.

Had friends up at Andersen at the time.

Got hit by Supertyphoon Pamela just ten days before we left the island!

I guess you got some years on me then! For some reason I thought you were younger!

I had quite a few friends who worked at the "NAVCAMS" station. Actually had friends all over the island. Believers in the military were all pretty tight-knit and it seemed that everyone knew each other or knew of each other at the very least. Temple Baptist was the sole KJV-Only Church on the island at the time but the Pastor took over a ministry on Truk and was replaced by a "Bible Corrector" (although he and I likely would not be butting heads so much these days - I do not "correct" the Bible BTW and he probably didn't either truth be known). There was also a "Bob Jones" type church right outside the gate of our base. There were a few "Typhoon Parties" while I was there and all of us single folk living in the barracks were volunteered for the "disaster crew" and slept in cots in the hangar to make sure the aircraft were safe. Chicken Kelaguin was one my favorite dishes while I was there but I haven't had any since I left!

I also got quite an education regarding the charismatics and certain cults and I went to the Philippines for a couple of weeks and met the lady who is now my wife!

Anyway, thought you might have been living there or something and perhaps that would give me an excuse to take a side trip there and make a few dives!

If you wanted to settle there, I am certain it is much cheaper than Hawaii! We are getting ready to start living semi-full time in the Philippines and will likely use Guam as a place to take care of medical needs and such since they will be the closest US territory.

 

[AV1611VET]

I also got quite an education regarding the charismatics and certain cults and I went to the Philippines for a couple of weeks and met the lady who is now my wife!

Nice testimony, AA!

We weren't saved at the time we were there, so we never went to church.

There was a St John's Episcopal School on Marine Drive that let the Chamorro Chess Club meet though.

Anyway, if you ever go back, go to Pizza Hut and get a Portuguese sausage pizza!

Talk about good!