How would you react to spousal abuse?

[Inkachu]

No, I'm not being abused

My husband wanted to have a conversation last night about the whole Ray Rice video (if you've been living under a rock, he was fighting with his then-fiance in a hotel elevator and knocked her unconscious, all caught on video). My husband wanted to know, as a woman, what I felt she might be thinking by even being in such a relationship, and why she's still with him and even sticking up for him. She's maintained that she loves him and supports him.

I told him that my personal opinion is that she's probably deluded herself into thinking that she's happy with this guy, and that she'd rather keep her comfortable pro-athlete's-wife lifestyle, than walk away from it and start over. What's a punch in the face when you've got a mansion and a big closet, right?

I told my husband that I think it's somewhat different than a case of spousal abuse between "normal" couples; those where the inducement to stick around isn't a multi-million dollar lifestyle.

Then he wanted to know how I would've reacted to a similar situation. That was really hard to say, since my husband is the most non-violent creature in the world when it comes to me. He's a very big, strong guy, and I've seen him get ticked off at other things and other people, and it's pretty intimidating. In the past, my normal reaction to anyone getting up in my face in a threatening way, would be to lash out at them; shove them away, etc. I was tormented by my brother as a kid, and I had no problem dishing it right back to him if he got physical with me. But if it were my husband, I'd be scared, because he is wayyyy stronger than I am, and I'd be no match. I'd probably just get out and get away as soon as I could. But it was sort of a moot point, since he and I both detest violence and would never get physical with each other. We don't even get loud when we argue. We don't throw things, slam doors, none of that stuff. We're just not violent people.

Anyway. I don't really have a point with this thread, it's just a conversation-starter. What do you think about the Rice incident? Is she crazy to stick around and defend him? Have you ever been on the giving or receiving end of violence? If so, what made you react the way you did?

 

[DZoolander]

I told him that my personal opinion is that she's probably deluded herself into thinking that she's happy with this guy, and that she'd rather keep her comfortable pro-athlete's-wife lifestyle, than walk away from it and start over. What's a punch in the face when you've got a mansion and a big closet, right?

That's what I think it is.

Anyway. I don't really have a point with this thread, it's just a conversation-starter. What do you think about the Rice incident? Is she crazy to stick around and defend him? Have you ever been on the giving or receiving end of violence? If so, what made you react the way you did?

Ehhh - I think they're both a couple of fools.

As for violence - apart from the normal kid scuffles at school - never been on the giving end of it. Apart from some spankings as a kid, never been on the receiving end of it.

 

[Inkachu]

Glad to hear you've been a peaceable guy, Ezoo

 

[HannahT]

When you have a circumstance that involves abuse? Most people zero in on the physical types, but most of the time people are dealing with verbal and emotional abuse as well.

We often see this in movies where the nasty person is tearing down the vulerable one. It can be child to parent, parent to child, spouse to family, etc.

People can be so torn down emotionally inside where they can be easily manipulated by the abuser. Its a pattern of behavior.

When I saw this story? My first thought after her press conference statement about how she takes responsibility for her part...was she is really got to get it now.

Abusive personalities (doesn't matter WHO it is) tend to not take responsibility for anything, and decide its anyone else's fault that things are happening. They may attempt to take responsibility for a sliver here and there, but the majority of the circumstance is always someone else's fault. Abusive personalities have a hard time owning anything, because of their perceived jaded image of taking responsibility. It means they are bad, the loser, loss in strength, position, etc. Admitting error is saying you are failure, loser, etc. Most realize that isn't the case - we all make errors. Yet abusive personalities don't connect the dots.

I can just picture their home life at this point. If you had just shut up I wouldn't have lost everything. You started it, and now I have to lose my career. You realize NO ONE else would have you, and your lucky your still around. She will pay dearly I have no doubt.

Another pattern that is regular is the victim sticking up for the abuser. We have all heard stories about how people get drawn back into the relationship, but what you dont' hear about as often is the people that got them out? They are normally shut out of their life completely. If you did not listen to their lies about me this wouldn't have happened. You know if you didn't do (insert crime in their eyes) I wouldn't have had to (abuse). You need to own your part in this, because IT IS partly YOUR fault! Now that they hate me they will continue to bad mouth me, and you still want them around? That shows ME you don't really love me. Its them or ME!

The head space gymastics is awful. Victims - be a child, parent or spouse - don't have the healthy room to express feelings, emotions, etc. It must mold around the expectations of the abusive personality. If you dare to express things? In private they will come after you with guns blazing - in public? They will wait until you are private, and thrown in how you humiliated them too in front of people.

Your feelings are okay as long as they agree with them. Otherwise, you will be treated as the criminal.

I'm not so sure the multi-million dollar lifestyle has anything to do with it. You see children sticking up for their parents that hurt them. You see spouses do the same. You see parents that stick up for their children that harm them.

If you can understand the mind games that are played on the victims? You can understand the chains they see on themselves. Also those that are physically abusive tend to throw threats their way, and victims know they are good at their word when it comes to that. Victims that have children also worry about the visitation, because they will pay them back via the children.

I personally hope she finds the strength to get the heck out of dodge, but sadly those that know her realize you must wait for them. You can't force it, because victims in most cases don't react well to that. You need to be very careful with how you speak about their partner/spouse/parent/child, etc. The hardest part is waiting for them to see the light, and finding the strength to face it.

 

[Hetta]

People can be so torn down emotionally inside where they can be easily manipulated by the abuser. Its a pattern of behavior.

This.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I grew up in an abusive household, so when I got married the first time, I didn't even know the difference. He was a drug addict, violent, selfish, and between jobs half the time. According to him, I was fat, ugly, stupid, a bad housekeeper, a lousy cook, a neglectful mother, a horrible singer, and not even a very good Christian. But hey, I didn't know there was any other kind of man out there. I did think about leaving him, but his own friends confirmed that mindset for me, telling me that's just the way men are, and if I were to leave, any man I'd find would do the same thing because that's what men do, so I might as well stay.

I stayed for five years.

Besides, I really did think I was fat, ugly, stupid, and all those other things he said, and that therefore I'm lucky he puts up with me. I thought no other man would have me, and I certainly couldn't make it on my own because I was too stupid and incompetent.

That's exactly what they (abusers) want you to think.

 

[Inkachu]

FTR I was asking more specifically about physical abuse, not mental/emotional, although we all know they often go hand-in-hand. I'd like people to address whether they've been on the giving/receiving end of actual, physical violence, and what their reactions were, and what they think now in retrospect about how and why they found themselves in those situations, and how they got out.

 

[mkgal1]

FTR I was asking more specifically about physical abuse, not mental/emotional, although we all know they often go hand-in-hand. I'd like people to address whether they've been on the giving/receiving end of actual, physical violence, and what their reactions were, and what they think now in retrospect about how and why they found themselves in those situations, and how they got out.

Fortunately, I've not had this experience....but her response is not unusual (even women that don't have the financial motivation will often choose to stay). There's been interesting discussion on Twitter ( #whyileft #whyistayed ). My speculation (mostly formed from listening to clinical psychologists speak on the topic) is that there's lots of mental/emotional abuse in their relationship/marriage and very little physical (that may have been the last time he's been physical). Most likely they go through the typical abuse cycle (honeymoon phase--> calm---> tensions building---> incident--> honeymoon phase). There's always that promise lingering that things will get better (and she may perceive they *are* better). I think it's easier for her to blame the media (and consider that her enemy) instead of blaming someone she believes she loves (and seeing her own husband as her enemy).

19 #WhyIStayed Tweets That Everyone Needs to See - Mic

 

[mkgal1]

The one thing I wonder, though, is if she (Janay Rice) was ever confronted....and maybe even offered counseling. It seems like this whole thing came as a blind-side for both of them. I can understand her feeling betrayed (and disregarded).

 

[technofox]

For spousal abuse, I would follow these steps:
1. Talk it out with the abuser to get them to stop.
2. If that doesn't work, suggest counseling.
3. If counseling doesn't work or the abuser does go to counseling, then move out.
4. If still no reconciliation, then file for legal separation.
5. Still no action on the abuser's part to change by then, file for divorce and move on.

Divorce is basically the last message for the abuser to change his/her behavior, and if that doesn't work then nothing will. You are better off without them.

Side note: I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and basically followed those steps until divorce was inevitable. I am now happily married to an angel of a wife.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

FTR I was asking more specifically about physical abuse, not mental/emotional, although we all know they often go hand-in-hand. I'd like people to address whether they've been on the giving/receiving end of actual, physical violence, and what their reactions were, and what they think now in retrospect about how and why they found themselves in those situations, and how they got out.

It happened. I remember once when he had me down on the ground, kicking me and hitting me with a stick, all aimed at the back of my head. As he did this, he was telling me that from now on, he'd make sure he always hit me on the back of my head, "so the bruises won't show, and you can't prove I did anything."

Any time it got to physical abuse, this was the pattern.

I'd leave, or prepare to leave.

He'd cry, beg, plead, admit fault, and promise to change. He may begin attending AA/NA meetings, tell me he has stopped drinking and using drugs, and may even schedule an intake appointment for mental health counseling.

Then I'd see him "making changes" and come home. Whereupon he'd think "mission accomplished, I won her back." Then he wouldn't follow through on any counseling appointments he had made, gradually he would stop going to meetings, and eventually he'd be back to his old ways. He never did stop using. He always hid it from others, while claiming to have stopped. How far did he go? Once, knowing I'd seen the half-empty bottle of vodka on the passenger seat of his car, he tried to cover his hind end by calling the police and reporting that someone had broken into his car and put it there. Oh, no, it certainly wasn't his!

Of course, the first time he hit me, I got the typical good old promise of "I'll never do that again," and I believed him. The last time, he was like Steve Urkel the next day, seeing all those lumps and bruises. "Did I do that?" (I was eight months pregnant at the time. Statistically a woman is more likely to be abused when she's pregnant than when she's not.)

My reaction was to hate my life, but figure I was trapped because the ladies at church all told me God hates divorce, and if we don't forgive others, God won't forgive us either. I don't know how long I would have stayed in it, if he himself hadn't left me for another woman. Thank God he did.

 

[RDKirk]

For spousal abuse, I would follow these steps:
1. Talk it out with the abuser to get them to stop.
2. If that doesn't work, suggest counseling.
3. If counseling doesn't work or the abuser does go to counseling, then move out.
4. If still no reconciliation, then file for legal separation.
5. Still no action on the abuser's part to change by then, file for divorce and move on.

Divorce is basically the last message for the abuser to change his/her behavior, and if that doesn't work then nothing will. You are better off without them.

Side note: I was in an emotionally abusive relationship and basically followed those steps until divorce was inevitable. I am now happily married to an angel of a wife.

Back in the 90s we were memnbers of a congregation, Calvary Chapel of Honolulu, that took a proactive stance on abuse of member wives.

They had a "House of Ruth" program consisting of confidential safe houses (the homes of empty nesters who were members) and teams of male therapists, counselors, and the "Security Ministry" (cops, soldiers, football players, nightclub bouncers). It was actually the pastor's wife who headed the "House of Ruth."

When there was reason to think a wife was being abused, the program was proactive and interventionary. They pretty much told the wife she needed to move out, if the abuse was real (as opposed to a false alarm).

The Security Ministry would move her and any kids to a safehouse while the husband was away, where she would get intervention therapy designed for abused wives. Then the intervention team (which included the Security Ministry) would wait in the house for the husband to return for his own "wall-to-wall counselling session."

The attitude of the congregation was, "That's our sister you're punching, and we aren't having it."

 

[mkgal1]

Back in the 90s we were memnbers of a congregation, Calvary Chapel of Honolulu, that took a proactive stance on abuse of member wives.

They had a "House of Ruth" program consisting of confidential safe houses (the homes of empty nesters who were members) and teams of male therapists, counselors, and the "Security Ministry" (cops, soldiers, football players, nightclub bouncers). It was actually the pastor's wife who headed the "House of Ruth."

When there was reason to think a wife was being abused, the program was proactive and interventionary. They pretty much told the wife she needed to move out, if the abuse was real (as opposed to a false alarm).

The Security Ministry would move her and any kids to a safehouse while the husband was away, where she would get intervention therapy designed for abused wives. Then the intervention team (which included the Security Ministry) would wait in the house for the husband to return for his own "wall-to-wall counselling session."

The attitude of the congregation was, "That's our sister you're punching, and we aren't having it."

That's awesome to hear. I wonder if that's still an active ministry. Do you know? I wish more churches would take a stance like this (it's good for everyone---the men included).

It's especially good to hear that this was a CC church. I'd gone to a women's conference at a CC church where this testimony was shared.....my heart sank. *This* is NOT how women ought to be advised on this topic (the basic message was "God will protect you"):

Raul Ries' Autobiography - YouTube

I don't believe God gets in the way of human free will. There are too many negative outcomes for me to believe that (and it's not God that is responsible for those outcomes, either). It *does* take human intervention (like what you described).

**For the "short" version....begin at about 14 min in.

Also.....notice the real danger began when Sharon was planning on leaving (which is when the danger of being killed statistically raises exponentially). Another thing that stands out is how she says, "I knew the day after I sinned with Raul I was going to reap consequences". I wonder if she'd believed she deserved the abuse? I do NOT like this attitude or implication (that God brings these "consequences" to people who've sinned against Him). That really seems like adding spiritual abuse on top of all of this.

 

[Inkachu]

RDK, I love that idea. I'd love to be involved in something like that.

 

[mkgal1]

It doesn't appear that's been continued (House of Ruth)---I searched their web site.

I do know that the Evangelical Covenant church at least has good resources for education---I'm just not sure about the support.
Category Archives: Abuse

 

[sdmsanjose]

Originally Posted by Inkachu http://www.christianforums.com/t7841467/#post66296884

I told him that my personal opinion is that she's probably deluded herself into thinking that she's happy with this guy, and that she'd rather keep her comfortable pro-athlete's-wife lifestyle, than walk away from it and start over. What's a punch in the face when you've got a mansion and a big closet, right?

What do you think about the Rice incident?

I think that the Rice incident should be a strong reminder to everyone (women and men) alike. That reminder is that you should get yourself into such an adequate financial and emotional condition that you do not have to compromise because of money or emotional dependence.

The bottom line is that you and you alone are the one that is mostly responsible for your relationship fate. The closer you get to self sufficiency in your emotional and financial condition the less you have to compromise when treated poorly.

 

[DZoolander]

The bottom line is that you and you alone are the one that is mostly responsible for your relationship fate. The closer you get to self sufficiency in your emotional and financial condition the less you have to compromise when treated poorly.

Completely agree - hence why I will be teaching my daughter:

college -> career -> marriage -> kids

 

[mkgal1]

The bottom line is that you and you alone are the one that is mostly responsible for your relationship fate. The closer you get to self sufficiency in your emotional and financial condition the less you have to compromise when treated poorly.

Excellent point.

 

[mkgal1]

About the response of the church.....I'd like for this to be a thing of the past (but, instead, I keep hearing that it's not changed):

My Husband Assaulted Me, My Church Took His Side | momlogic.com

 

[Hetta]

Completely agree - hence why I will be teaching my daughter:

college -> career -> marriage -> kids

Nice placement.