How would you have handled this?

[illudium_phosdex]

Here's an example of one time when the natural consequence in my mind just wouldn't have worked and it happened just this evening. We got a cat two weeks ago. Well tonight my son wanted to play with the cat but she wasn't interested and ran under the bed to hide. Rather than taking "no" for an answer, he decided to spray her with Odoban to flush her out. Now the natural consequence of his action would have been to leave the Odoban on the cat and let her get really sick and possibly die but I really don't think this would be fair to the cat. Or maybe we could have sprayed the boy to see how he liked it but then the consequence would be an extremely sick boy, a dead cat and a probable visit from both social services and animal welfare (For those who can't tell, I'm being sarcastic here). So anyway DH and I bathed the cat (lots of fun). And our son is grounded for the next three days. No TV, no Wii and no computer time. He did not get a spanking.

For those in the natural consequences at all times camp, I'd love to know how this could have been handled differently. (If this sounds belligerent, it's not meant to be, I honestly and sincerely want to know), By the way, having him bathe the cat is a no go. He is 6 and can't even get all the shampoo out of his own hair. The cat would still be covered in cleanser if that were the route we had decided to take. Nor would it have done any good to have him "help" with all the scratching, biting and clawing going on while bathing her. It took all my husband's and my might to keep her contained to get her rinsed off.

 

[lucypevensie]

I do prefer to let the natural consequnces happen when practical, though I am not strictly against punishments.

Consequnces do not necessarily have to be really painful for our kids in order for them to learn right from wrong. So while it was not directly painful to your son to have to bathe the cat it is still very likely that he learned something from you having to bathe the cat. He could be the towel boy. He can be in charge of the cleanup afterwards ( no doubt there was a good deal of splashing to wipe up). He can take care of your wet clothing by tossing them in the washer. He can fetch first aid supplies for the scratches and bites and help you apply them.

Sometimes when we hurt an animal we need to regain the animal's trust. Pets are usually pretty forgiving so this does not usually take a long time. He can earn the cat's trust by being the one responsible for all of his care - do all of the feeding, watering, brushing, etc. for a set amount of time. This is not a painful conseqeunce for your son, but, again, not all consequences have to hurt in order for the lesson to be learned. He needs to learn to respect the cat, and this is a good place for him to begin.

Our kids know that our cat will never be reprimanded for using his claws and/or teeth if he feels the kids are being too rough with him. Make sure your son know this too.

 

[HeatherJay]

Did you talk to him about how much he might have hurt the cat? How sick the cat might have gotten? Explained to him that the cat could have died from his actions? This doesn't have to be a loud or harsh conversation, but it's a conversation that I definitely would have had. Not a lecture...a two way conversation with lots of talking on his part to make sure that he understood the severity of his actions and that he also was absolutely aware that spraying the cat with cleaner is NEVER acceptable.

After that, I think the natural consequence would be that he's not allowed to play with the cat until he shows that he knows the proper, gentle way to play. Also, I would lock up the cleaning products, or put them way out of his reach...making sure that he realizes that the reason for this is because he's demonstrated that he doesn't realize how dangerous such things can be, and therefore, he can't be trusted to use them or be around them (which, common sense would say they should be out of reach anyway...but things like being allowed to clean the windows, or polish the furniture, or spray the air freshener...those are sometimes special grown up chores for a child to be allowed to do).

Natural consequences demand open, two-way conversation and dialogue...and lots of effort put into making sure the offending party understands their offense, and also the consequence of that offense. Natural consequences also require supervision and strong parental support...so the child understands that the parents goal is truly to help them learn, to teach them and disciple to them...and NOT to force them into compliance through punishments that do not naturally follow their crime.

 

[illudium_phosdex]

Well, on the good side, we have talked to him quite a bit about how dangerous what he did was. His sentence was commuted this afternoon because he was being so good about it. Did not fuss when he couldn't watch TV, play on the computer or Wii. And he even cleaned his room while he was up there. His dad and I both feel after talking to him, that he has learned his lesson.

 

[Stan53]

For what it is worth, I think you did just fine, except that I wouldn't have commuted his sentence. Part of consequences is the punishment. If you do this, then that will happen.
I would have done as you did, given the no spanking provision.

 

[CarrieAg93]

You could have told him that since bathing the cat took time you now didn't have time to do something he wanted you to do with him.

 

[heart of peace]

You could have told him that since bathing the cat took time you now didn't have time to do something he wanted you to do with him.

This and I wouldn't allow my child to have time with our kitty. I'd calmly explain that I love the cat and what he did put the cat's life in danger. Since he acted in a way that put the cat in serious danger, he no longer has my confidence to be near the kitty. I'd spend more time with my kitty to make sure he is feeling ok and loved in light of the poor actions taken by my child. I would only allow supervised time between my son and our kitty.

Not that I think punishment is wrong, I just think punishment is much lower on my list. I am not "all logical consequences at all costs" kind of mom as that would pigeon hole me into a "style" of parenting. For me, I don't work well having to "stick to a style". I just find discipline via punishment to be an ineffective method for developing intrinsic motivation and this is my long term goal/hopes for my child.

 

[stacii]

My son is only 1, so I'm just starting to become interested in the different methods of discipline (I never even knew there were different approaches)! Is there any internet or print material where i can read up on this natural consequenses approach? I'm interested in learning more because this is sort of the attitude that I already have!

 

[heart of peace]

Hey, atlasshrugged, you got me thinking about your question...lol I love threads that get me thinking after I left it

Anyway, what you are talking about in your first post about letting your cat get sick or allowing a retaliation of being sprayed back is not a logical consequence....it would be considered the "natural consequence". Natural consequences are not the same as logical. Natural ones are usually the ones I opt for if it makes sense and it is safe. If it isn't, then I normally move on to a logical one. I googled it to find a good example for you to read through and ponder, since you are interested in it.

"For example”, says Dimerman, "if a child insists on going outside on a cool day without his coat let him. He would quickly learn that he needs a coat in order to stay warm. In this case the natural consequence isn't life threatening and it avoids power struggles between parent and child.”

However Dimerman adds that there are times when a natural consequence doesn't work and a parent needs to step in with a logical consequence. "If a child were to run across a busy street, you couldn't allow the natural consequence of being hit by a car happen. Instead a parent would apply logical consequences, telling the child that because they broke a rule and played near the street they would then have to play in the house."

Link

emphasis mine

 

[CarrieAg93]

My son is only 1, so I'm just starting to become interested in the different methods of discipline (I never even knew there were different approaches)! Is there any internet or print material where i can read up on this natural consequenses approach? I'm interested in learning more because this is sort of the attitude that I already have!

Love and Logic - Jim Fay and Foster Cline

They have several books about their parenting techniques.

 

[illudium_phosdex]

Hey, atlasshrugged, you got me thinking about your question...lol I love threads that get me thinking after I left it

Anyway, what you are talking about in your first post about letting your cat get sick or allowing a retaliation of being sprayed back is not a logical consequence....it would be considered the "natural consequence". Natural consequences are not the same as logical. Natural ones are usually the ones I opt for if it makes sense and it is safe. If it isn't, then I normally move on to a logical one. I googled it to find a good example for you to read through and ponder, since you are interested in it.



emphasis mine

Thanks for that. I guess in many cases, I'm in the natural then logical consequences camp. I've often said that I have a laissez faire attitude toward parenting. That being said, he's now, not allowed to play with the cat without direct supervision. And won't be until we've determined that the cat is in no immediate harm from him. I do feel that being banned from his favorite activities really did help. One of the reasons it helped is because it did give us time to talk about what happened and how it could be handled differently in the future by him without distractions. But I have to say that these kind of punishments are only dealt out in very extreme circumstances and his dad and I both felt that this one fit the extreme category.

 

[Stan53]

Is there any internet or print material where i can read up on this natural consequenses approach?

Google it and you will find plenty of information.

 

[heart of peace]

Thanks for that. I guess in many cases, I'm in the natural then logical consequences camp. I've often said that I have a laissez faire attitude toward parenting. That being said, he's now, not allowed to play with the cat without direct supervision. And won't be until we've determined that the cat is in no immediate harm from him. I do feel that being banned from his favorite activities really did help. One of the reasons it helped is because it did give us time to talk about what happened and how it could be handled differently in the future by him without distractions. But I have to say that these kind of punishments are only dealt out in very extreme circumstances and his dad and I both felt that this one fit the extreme category.

I wouldn't categorize natural/logical consequence parenting a laissez faire attitude. It has required a lot of effort on my part to be ever mindful of my parenting and my connection with my child. I am constantly reflecting to see if there is anything hubby and I are modeling that are conveying an inappropriate message to our son. I have to counteract a society at large [around me] that believes this style of parenting is fluff and will not rear an obedient and well behaved child.

Regarding the banning him from his favority activities and that it helped provide time to talk about it....well, if I may, I'd like to comment. I wouldn't have doled it out as a punishment or viewed it as such in my mind. If I felt my son was too distracted by some of the things around him from truly grasping the severity of his actions, it would be logical to remove them in order to help him focus. I would view this as parental guidance instead of punishing him. I would have calmly explained that since xyz activity is distracting him, it would be in his and our cat's best interest for him to distance himself from it for a day or two as he ponders the severity of his actions (said in an age appropriate manner). Just wanted to give another spin to it all. I employ this in my own life, sometimes I need to take a step back from a situation to gain greater perspective of it....kwim?

 

[Leanna]

I know what he did was shocking, and even a little irritating, and since everyone else has addressed your original question I just want to point out that he's *six* and so as an immature boy he did an immature thing. He didn't set out to purposefully disobey you, he just acted 6.

 

[TexasSky]

Here's an example of one time when the natural consequence in my mind just wouldn't have worked and it happened just this evening. We got a cat two weeks ago. Well tonight my son wanted to play with the cat but she wasn't interested and ran under the bed to hide. Rather than taking "no" for an answer, he decided to spray her with Odoban to flush her out. Now the natural consequence of his action would have been to leave the Odoban on the cat and let her get really sick and possibly die but I really don't think this would be fair to the cat. Or maybe we could have sprayed the boy to see how he liked it but then the consequence would be an extremely sick boy, a dead cat and a probable visit from both social services and animal welfare (For those who can't tell, I'm being sarcastic here). So anyway DH and I bathed the cat (lots of fun). And our son is grounded for the next three days. No TV, no Wii and no computer time. He did not get a spanking.

For those in the natural consequences at all times camp, I'd love to know how this could have been handled differently. (If this sounds belligerent, it's not meant to be, I honestly and sincerely want to know), By the way, having him bathe the cat is a no go. He is 6 and can't even get all the shampoo out of his own hair. The cat would still be covered in cleanser if that were the route we had decided to take. Nor would it have done any good to have him "help" with all the scratching, biting and clawing going on while bathing her. It took all my husband's and my might to keep her contained to get her rinsed off.

My first question would be, "How did the 6 year old get his hands on the Odoban?"

In all honesty, I would have talked to him about the danger to the cat, made him help me clean up the bathroom after the cat-bath, and given him lessons in how to handle the cat.

I'm not sure the grounding from all the electronics will really teach him much in the end, and my goal with discipline is always to teach.