How would you feel if non-Christians went to heaven?

heron · Mar 21, 2007

If this were a debate forum, I'd point out that I've never rebelled against anyone in my life, and know no atheist who ever has.

(-:

I think you know what he means, though -- reword that as resisting, ignoring, or avoiding God... if one claims a being doesn't exist, then they would continue that claim even if appealing offers come along. It's an honesty thing... integrity.

If I were offered a free week of one-on one training with the Dalai Lama, I would be honored but turn it down, because of inconsistency with my convictions.

MikeMcK · Mar 21, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
I've never rebelled against anyone in my life, and know no atheist who ever has.

So then, have you kept God's laws or not kept God's laws?

InterestedAtheist · Mar 21, 2007

MikeMcK said:
I would love for everyone to go to Heaven. That's why I preach the Gospel the way I do.

Unfortunately, God says that unrighteousness cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven and we are unrighteous because of our sins.

I have to wonder, though, why they would want to spend eternity worshipping and fellowshipping with God, when they've spent their whole lives rebelling against Him.

My whole life isn't all that long. Especially if I happen to die young, of course, but even if I live to be a hundred. I hope I'll never be too old to learn new things, and change for the better.

heron said:
(-:

I think you know what he means, though -- reword that as resisting, ignoring, or avoiding God... if one claims a being doesn't exist, then they would continue that claim even if appealing offers come along. It's an honesty thing... integrity.

Sorry, I thought of "rebelling against God" as "fighting back against Him."
I have to say, though, I've never resisted, ignored or avoided God.
But "not noticed" God - I plead guilty.

MikeMcK said:
So then, have you kept God's laws or not kept God's laws?

Some of God's laws (as I understand them from my sketchy knowledge of Christianity) are sensible and I have kept them.
Some of them are sensible and I have not kept them.
Some of them are not sensible and I have not kept them.

So yes, I have not kept all of God's laws. If I had, I'd be perfect (by God's standards). I'm not perfect, and I'm happy to admit it.

So what does this mean?

MikeMcK · Mar 21, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
Some of God's laws (as I understand them from my sketchy knowledge of Christianity) are sensible and I have kept them.
Some of them are sensible and I have not kept them.
Some of them are not sensible and I have not kept them.

So yes, I have not kept all of God's laws. If I had, I'd be perfect (by God's standards). I'm not perfect, and I'm happy to admit it.

So what does this mean?

It means that you've rebelled against God.

Key · Mar 21, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
Hello all,

How would you feel if nonbelievers - people from other religions and atheists - all went to heaven too?

In previous discussions in the GA forum, I've seen some Christians defend the existence of hell by saying that God must send unbelievers there; and that unbelievers would not be able to survive in heaven, or maybe would not enjoy it. Thinking about this prompted my question.

Thanks!

Your Salvation is between you and God, and if God has chosen to bestow mercy on anyone, then that is between them and God.

However... I would never meet a non-believer in heaven... I would only meet a former non-believer, Hard to not believe when you are in Heaven

God Bless

Key

InterestedAtheist · Mar 21, 2007

OK, if you want to define "rebelling" as "not being perfect" then yes, I've rebelled against God.

But, returning to the OP, maybe God will surprise us all - maybe he will decide that good people, not just perfect people, should be saved from hell. If I've got eternity, surely that's enough time to learn to be perfect?

I shouldn't argue too much, though - I just came here to get Christian reactions. Thank you to all who've answered!

InterestedAtheist · Mar 21, 2007

Hi Key - well, yes...good point.

MikeMcK · Mar 22, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
OK, if you want to define "rebelling" as "not being perfect" then yes, I've rebelled against God.

It has nothing to do with not being perfect. It has to do with the fact that, as you freely admit, you haven't kept God's laws.

But, returning to the OP, maybe God will surprise us all - maybe he will decide that good people, not just perfect people, should be saved from hell.

But that's the whole point. There are no good people.

Every one of us has sinned and made ourselves enemies of God.

Are you telling us that you're a good person?

If I've got eternity, surely that's enough time to learn to be perfect?

First of all, you don't have eternity. You have a relatively short lifetime. When you die, that is, when you pass from this life, you're going to stand before God and He's going to judge you based on whether or not you've kept His laws. You've already admitted that you have not. The Bible is clear that it's appointed unto man once to die, and then to face judgement.

Second, you can't learn to be perfect. Your sin nature means that unless you die to sin by being crucified with Christ, you will always have that tendency to sin.

InterestedAtheist · Mar 22, 2007

Sure I'm a good person. I said I'm not a perfect person. I'm not a Christian; I don't feel the need to defend myself according to an impossible standard.

As you point out, I freely admit that I have broken God's laws. I just don't think that makes me a bad person - and besides which, when I judge myself or others as good or bad, I don't do it as either one or the other. Sounds unrealistic to me.

I said I have eternity because I do - according to Christians, who say I will live forever. They also say that after my earthly life I will no longer be able to alter my destiny - but I'm just on this thread to ask them how they would feel if they were wrong, and if God accepted former unbelievers (thank you, Key) into heaven.

heron · Mar 22, 2007

...and you're being very nice about it.

Just a little insight, some of the patriarchs weren't raised up in the lineage of faith -- they had experiences with God, and followed what they believed they needed to do.

Moses grew up with sun gods and Pharoah worship. After an encounter with God, he followed God's guidance and took charge of restoring the faith among hoardes of people.

If Moses tried to do this today, he would be sent to seminary first, be given a waiting period to prove his credibility, be subject to a board of directors, or be sent to Guantanamo Bay.

MikeMcK · Mar 22, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
Sure I'm a good person. I said I'm not a perfect person. I'm not a Christian; I don't feel the need to defend myself according to an impossible standard.

Again, you seem to be hung up on this "nobody's perfect" excuse. Imagine a rapist being hauled before the judge and saying, "Well, sure, your honor, I raped that woman, but nobody's perfect".

If he's a just judge, is he going to sentence the rapist, or is he just going to say, "Well, I'm sure you're doing your best. Go on home."

If he's a just judge, then he's going to sentence the rapist.

As you point out, I freely admit that I have broken God's laws. I just don't think that makes me a bad person

But, again, it isn't your standard that you will be judged by.

I said I have eternity because I do

And God says that when this short lifetime is over, you will be judged for your sins. If you are forgiven and reconciled to God through Christ, then you will have eternity in Heaven. If you die in your sins, then you will have eternity in Hell.

So, either way, you're right. You will have eternity, but the question is where you will spend eternity.

I'm just on this thread to ask them how they would feel if they were wrong and if God accepted former unbelievers (thank you, Key) into heaven.

God has already spoken. The righteous in Christ go to Heaven. The unrighteous go to Hell. No room left for debate.

Y

InterestedAtheist · Mar 22, 2007

It doesn't worry me any more than contemplating the punishments Allah has in store for me does. Or Pluto.

EDIT: A little late where I am now, but I'll come back tomorrow. Goodnight!

039 · Mar 22, 2007

Good night!

All we're saying is consider the evidence. =3

Key · Mar 22, 2007

I had to ask this question to a priest I know... just because... this was a good question.

Here is his response.

"I will only ever meet a Christian in Heaven... However...If God allows you to become a Christian posthumously, that is between you and God, but I, in good faith and conscience, can not tell you that, that is a viable option" Rev Eric Canto.

God Bless

Key

MikeMcK · Mar 22, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
It doesn't worry me any more than contemplating the punishments Allah has in store for me does. Or Pluto.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

PhilosopherD · Mar 22, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
Hello all,

How would you feel if nonbelievers - people from other religions and atheists - all went to heaven too?

In previous discussions in the GA forum, I've seen some Christians defend the existence of hell by saying that God must send unbelievers there; and that unbelievers would not be able to survive in heaven, or maybe would not enjoy it. Thinking about this prompted my question.

Thanks!

I wouldn't mind, as long as they don't bring any hellish attitudes with them. It's kind of like where I live. There is a saying in my state that has to do with anti-littering ordinances, "Don't lay that trash on Oklahoma." Likewise, in order for heaven to be heaven, not just anyone should be let in, otherwise...it wouldn't be heavenly. But, by all means, if God chooses to allow a pious, loving, God fearing Hindu or other into heaven, who am I to complain?

metherion · Mar 22, 2007

I would be not at all surprised and quitee happy if I met non-Christians in Heaven. In fact, I fully expect to.

Metherion

InterestedAtheist · Mar 22, 2007

MikeMcK said:
Again, you seem to be hung up on this "nobody's perfect" excuse. Imagine a rapist being hauled before the judge and saying, "Well, sure, your honor, I raped that woman, but nobody's perfect".

If he's a just judge, is he going to sentence the rapist, or is he just going to say, "Well, I'm sure you're doing your best. Go on home."

If he's a just judge, then he's going to sentence the rapist.

I'm afraid I usually find that comparing God to a just judge doesn't work out so well. Consider an earthly judge who was faced with, say, a rapist. But this judge knows that under the law - for some reason - he must either let the rapist go free or else sentence him to be executed by slow torture. What would a just judge do?

All right, now let's consider it again: the judge has the same two choices, but this time he's faced with someone arrested for picking pockets. What would a just judge do?

MikeMcK said:
God has already spoken. The righteous in Christ go to Heaven. The unrighteous go to Hell. No room left for debate.

For you, maybe there is no more room for debate. Let's stop talking about it, then.

Key said:
I had to ask this question to a priest I know... just because... this was a good question.

Here is his response.

"I will only ever meet a Christian in Heaven... However...If God allows you to become a Christian posthumously, that is between you and God, but I, in good faith and conscience, can not tell you that, that is a viable option" Rev Eric Canto.

God Bless

Key

That's a really good answer. Good for Rev. Canto!

MikeMcK said:
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

If you say so. I'm not a Christian, and I don't believe in God.

metherion said:
I would be not at all surprised and quite happy if I met non-Christians in Heaven. In fact, I fully expect to.

Metherion

Cool!

Digit · Mar 22, 2007

InterestedAtheist said:
It doesn't worry me any more than contemplating the punishments Allah has in store for me does. Or Pluto.

The difference here, from what I have learned recently, is that Christianity is the only religion that points to an answer and a reason for things, and explains them. All the rest, without exception, point away, at things and objects and ways to live and so on, but never resoning why, or giving an overall picture of why.

Christianity has a figure, Jesus Christ, who came to earth and claimed to be God. He pointed at himself as the answer. He is written about inside the Bible and outside in historical records by Josephus, a Jewish historian and two others... whose names escape me, sorry. I will find them however should you wish me too as they are at home.

These are far stronger claims than any other religion.

Cheers!
Digit

InterestedAtheist · Mar 22, 2007

Hi Digit,

I'm afraid members of other religions might disagree with you.

How would you feel if non-Christians went to heaven?

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