How would you deal with this?

RaymondG · Apr 26, 2017

First, I would continue the conversation as normal and maybe flash the Jesus hand sign when it was my turn to speak.
Then I would pluck out the eye that caused me to see the evil/negative so that it doesn't happen again.

lastly, I would polish up my inner light, so the darkness flee and cannot be seen in my presence....sort of like how the dark runs away when you turn on a light in a room.

Phil 1:21 · Apr 26, 2017

Grandpa2390 said:
Devil hand sign?

An interesting article about that hand sign.

Sign of the horns - Wikipedia

Ken Rank · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Last week I had a tradesman in my house, a nice local family fellow. He's been here before and told me he suffers some mild hyper disorder, and we seem to get along well enough. We've even bumped into each other down the street and had a 5 minute chat etc, without any religious/spiritual discussion.

So last week I felt to ask him if he believed in God, he said "yes but not the Jesus God". I said nothing then a few minutes later I said "I have no problem with the Jesus God, and mentioned how I notice Jesus gets blamed for the wickedness of man" which he agreed somewhat. I then mentioned how Jesus was the only man to live free from Sin.

Anyhow that conversation faded and later when he was talking to me he used the devil hand sign repeatedly even pointing at me with it as he rambled on about situations in his life because he knew I would listen, and I did until he got angry about the situation he was telling me about and was projecting it at me. I reproved him on the anger but didn't say anything about the devil hand sign which I don't at all welcome in my home or my property.

I felt he may have taken it personally so let it go, I didn't want to be too critical and noticed he's a bit of a potential loose cannon. I wonder how others would deal with this sort of thing in a Christian way without ignoring it or upsetting ?

For starters, unless he said "this is the devils sign" you are only assuming that this "symbol" has the same meaning to him. Last week a friend called and told me about his wife and her kindergarten class. There was a little girl in it that points with her middle finger. All the other kids mock her and some are offended, but the little girl was never told that our "culture" has demonized a perfectly good "God-created" finger. My point, he MIGHT not have viewed that symbol as you did. He probably did... but you don't know for sure unless you asked him.

Secondly, I think you placed yourself in this position. I don't say that to offend you at all... this is a result of our religious culture. The "Great Commission" is taken as a call to convert the world to Christianity and as a result, as soon as any new Christian can speak about their very recent life changing decision... we encourage them to go witness to their friends and family... more often then not only causing strife and division. Those that walked with Yeshua did so every day, night and day, for 3 years before they were really encouraged to go share. That brings me back to the Great Commission... which is not a call to convert at all... it is a call to TEACH. It says in passive participle form, "go" (literally, "as you are going") "make disciples" (students). We can't force anyone to learn... one must seek in order to find. Therefore, the "as you are going" is simply a call to walk the walk, reflect the Lord in all you say and do... and when God draws a man unto Himself (John 6:44) and He directs them into your path, then do the job, teach. Because at that point they want to learn.

Bringing somebody into your home and then trying to share Christ shows your love for Christ... I don't question that... but if that man isn't seeking, he isn't going to find. By extension... if he isn't asking questions he won't hear your answers. You would have been better to just make sure each word that you spoke and deed you performed reflected the one you serve so that his light shines brightly to the dark world around you.

Ken Rank · Apr 26, 2017

JayW said:
An interesting article about that hand sign.

Sign of the horns - Wikipedia

What is interesting is where the horns really came from. Do you know?

JingshenBianxi · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Last week I had a tradesman in my house, a nice local family fellow. He's been here before and told me he suffers some mild hyper disorder, and we seem to get along well enough. We've even bumped into each other down the street and had a 5 minute chat etc, without any religious/spiritual discussion.

So last week I felt to ask him if he believed in God, he said "yes but not the Jesus God". I said nothing then a few minutes later I said "I have no problem with the Jesus God, and mentioned how I notice Jesus gets blamed for the wickedness of man" which he agreed somewhat. I then mentioned how Jesus was the only man to live free from Sin.

Anyhow that conversation faded and later when he was talking to me he used the devil hand sign repeatedly even pointing at me with it as he rambled on about situations in his life because he knew I would listen, and I did until he got angry about the situation he was telling me about and was projecting it at me. I reproved him on the anger but didn't say anything about the devil hand sign which I don't at all welcome in my home or my property.

I felt he may have taken it personally so let it go, I didn't want to be too critical and noticed he's a bit of a potential loose cannon. I wonder how others would deal with this sort of thing in a Christian way without ignoring it or upsetting ?

I would've simply changed the topic from talking about Jesus to talking about the Devil.

" I notice that hand gesture you keep throwing in my direction. Would you like to know what that gesture means? "

And however the conversation went from that point on would've truly been an eye opener in regards to the truth about that particular person. We all love to talk about God and the Lord and that is amazing and is pertinent. However, people like this who arouse your spirit to question their allegiance in the spirit realm get me excited to sort of throw a curve ball.

As much as like exalting GOD, I take just as much joy in talking about the defeated Devil as well. In Jesus name of course.

Phil 1:21 · Apr 26, 2017

Ken Rank said:
What is interesting is where the horns really came from. Do you know?

This is the earliest reference I could find. It seems to fall in line with other articles on the subject.

Devil hand sign: Meaning of the horns gesture

"The Devil hand sign or goat horns gesture are two incorrect names. The true name is Karana Mudra and it is not about goat horns but Yak horns. It is called the Gesture of Banishing. Siddhārtha Gautama, the founder of Buddhism or the Buddha first used this hand gesture far back in c. 563 BCE or c. 480 BCE. This was used to warding off evil. So when you point this gesture towards someone you are warding of the evil[evil-devil], you are banishing the person you are pointing your hand at. That’s why they call it The Gesture Warding off Evil. The Yak horns sign is a real negative hand gesture and is insulting as pointing your mid-finger."

Grandpa2390 · Apr 26, 2017

JayW said:
An interesting article about that hand sign.

Sign of the horns - Wikipedia

seems awfully silly to me. Has a variety of meanings.
And even if someone means it as devil, why should I be afraid or offended?

I'd be more worried about the person who meant it as devil than whatever perceived effect they think making that sign would have on me.

If they want to make a ridiculous hand gesture to their god... I'm concerned about their soul. But they are not doing me any harm.

Grandpa2390 · Apr 26, 2017

Ken Rank said:
What is interesting is where the horns really came from. Do you know?

Well we know in many cultures, horns of goats and so forth are associated with evil. Such as the Satyr. I think horns just look scary so they were associated with scary things... like evil beings.

Darren Court · Apr 26, 2017

Great advice, per usual here but.................

If you're looking for advice from others you're going to get two extremes.... step up to witness and say nothing until pressed......... and everything between.

Nobody can tell you which is right, except one. The Holy Spirit. There are times when you should boldly declare your faith in the face of adversity, ridicule and even hostility. There are times you should say nothing. Who can advise?

Moreover, I'm completely convinced that difficult situations and circumstances are part of our growing, learning and understanding whilst we develop a better relationship with Christ. If you simply take advice off others on how to handle this situation how does it help you grow your relationship with Him?

There's nothing wrong with seeking ideas from others on all kinds of matters but ultimately you must rely on Him not others.

Ken Rank · Apr 26, 2017

JayW said:
This is the earliest reference I could find. It seems to fall in line with other articles on the subject.

Devil hand sign: Meaning of the horns gesture

"The Devil hand sign or goat horns gesture are two incorrect names. The true name is Karana Mudra and it is not about goat horns but Yak horns. It is called the Gesture of Banishing. Siddhārtha Gautama, the founder of Buddhism or the Buddha first used this hand gesture far back in c. 563 BCE or c. 480 BCE. This was used to warding off evil. So when you point this gesture towards someone you are warding of the evil[evil-devil], you are banishing the person you are pointing your hand at. That’s why they call it The Gesture Warding off Evil. The Yak horns sign is a real negative hand gesture and is insulting as pointing your mid-finger."

I believe they were originally a symbol of light and meant to be a compliment. When Michelangelo made his statue of Moses his intent was to capture the "glow" or "light" that emitted from Moses after he had been with God. However, capturing this in a one-color marble isn't easy, in fact, it isn't possible. So, Michelangelo created a pun in his art, he added horns to Moses' head.

The Hebrew word for horn is qeren (H7161) but as is the case with Hebrew, it is more picturesque and each word (as is the case with most words in most languages) have more than one meaning. So... a horn looks like a light ray (like that from the sun breaking through the clouds) and thus a connection... light ray and horn are the same one word in Hebrew. So, Michelangelo placed horns on Moses to depict this.

I believe, but can't prove it, that since Satan is the "angel of light" (or was) that it seems likely to me that horns were first used to depict light but since the being of Satan was evil, the image became associated with evil and that is how we see it today.

View media item 54801

Ken Rank · Apr 26, 2017

Grandpa2390 said:
Well we know in many cultures, horns of goats and so forth are associated with evil. Such as the Satyr. I think horns just look scary so they were associated with scary things... like evil beings.

.... maybe, but read my post above this one.

pdudgeon · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Thank you, maybe I've been too trusting, that's certainly good advice but when I had Demons people didn't forsake me ? I'm confused but leaning on canceling his appointment here ? Anyone else have some insight ?

yes, I would cancel the appointment.

You've given him the opportunity to ask questions (which apparently he hasn't) and to state his allegiance (which he has), so there's no need for further conversation with him, especially in your house.

If you do contact him again, do it on neutral ground--not at his business and not at your home.

fat wee robin · Apr 26, 2017

Ken Rank said:
For starters, unless he said "this is the devils sign" you are only assuming that this "symbol" has the same meaning to him. Last week a friend called and told me about his wife and her kindergarten class. There was a little girl in it that points with her middle finger. All the other kids mock her and some are offended, but the little girl was never told that our "culture" has demonized a perfectly good "God-created" finger. My point, he MIGHT not have viewed that symbol as you did. He probably did... but you don't know for sure unless you asked him.

Secondly, I think you placed yourself in this position. I don't say that to offend you at all... this is a result of our religious culture. The "Great Commission" is taken as a call to convert the world to Christianity and as a result, as soon as any new Christian can speak about their very recent life changing decision... we encourage them to go witness to their friends and family... more often then not only causing strife and division. Those that walked with Yeshua did so every day, night and day, for 3 years before they were really encouraged to go share. That brings me back to the Great Commission... which is not a call to convert at all... it is a call to TEACH. It says in passive participle form, "go" (literally, "as you are going") "make disciples" (students). We can't force anyone to learn... one must seek in order to find. Therefore, the "as you are going" is simply a call to walk the walk, reflect the Lord in all you say and do... and when God draws a man unto Himself (John 6:44) and He directs them into your path, then do the job, teach. Because at that point they want to learn.

Bringing somebody into your home and then trying to share Christ shows your love for Christ... I don't question that... but if that man isn't seeking, he isn't going to find. By extension... if he isn't asking questions he won't hear your answers. You would have been better to just make sure each word that you spoke and deed you performed reflected the one you serve so that his light shines brightly to the dark world around you.

Thankyou for this very clear post. There is nothing more calculated, to turn people away, than univited 'religious evangelising' . As you say there must be an opening ,and also listening manner .

Kit Sigmon · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Last week I had a tradesman in my house, a nice local family fellow. He's been here before and told me he suffers some mild hyper disorder, and we seem to get along well enough. We've even bumped into each other down the street and had a 5 minute chat etc, without any religious/spiritual discussion.

So last week I felt to ask him if he believed in God, he said "yes but not the Jesus God". I said nothing then a few minutes later I said "I have no problem with the Jesus God, and mentioned how I notice Jesus gets blamed for the wickedness of man" which he agreed somewhat. I then mentioned how Jesus was the only man to live free from Sin.

Anyhow that conversation faded and later when he was talking to me he used the devil hand sign repeatedly even pointing at me with it as he rambled on about situations in his life because he knew I would listen, and I did until he got angry about the situation he was telling me about and was projecting it at me. I reproved him on the anger but didn't say anything about the devil hand sign which I don't at all welcome in my home or my property.

I felt he may have taken it personally so let it go, I didn't want to be too critical and noticed he's a bit of a potential loose cannon. I wonder how others would deal with this sort of thing in a Christian way without ignoring it or upsetting ?

I would of asked what the hand sign he was using meant.

Andrew4jesus · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Last week I had a tradesman in my house, a nice local family fellow. He's been here before and told me he suffers some mild hyper disorder, and we seem to get along well enough. We've even bumped into each other down the street and had a 5 minute chat etc, without any religious/spiritual discussion.

So last week I felt to ask him if he believed in God, he said "yes but not the Jesus God". I said nothing then a few minutes later I said "I have no problem with the Jesus God, and mentioned how I notice Jesus gets blamed for the wickedness of man" which he agreed somewhat. I then mentioned how Jesus was the only man to live free from Sin.

Anyhow that conversation faded and later when he was talking to me he used the devil hand sign repeatedly even pointing at me with it as he rambled on about situations in his life because he knew I would listen, and I did until he got angry about the situation he was telling me about and was projecting it at me. I reproved him on the anger but didn't say anything about the devil hand sign which I don't at all welcome in my home or my property.

I felt he may have taken it personally so let it go, I didn't want to be too critical and noticed he's a bit of a potential loose cannon. I wonder how others would deal with this sort of thing in a Christian way without ignoring it or upsetting ?

A tradesmen should be left to do his skills when in your house. You should not be preaching at the poor soul. If you wanted to talk to him about spiritual matters it should be in his free time if he chooses to spend his free time with you. Personally I think your were very discourteous and you have brought his anger to the surface. Shame on you :-(

Greg Merrill · Apr 26, 2017

Because the picture didn't come out, I then tried to delete this post, and don't see how to do that.

Greg Merrill · Apr 26, 2017

Delete

Greg Merrill · Apr 26, 2017

Grandpa2390 said:
Devil hand sign?

I tried twice to post a picture of this hand sign and it didn't come up, so let me describe it.
The middle two fingers are folded into the palm of the hand, then the thumb across them, leaving
the index finger and the little finger pointing. These pointing fingers are equated the the horns of a
goat, which is also used as a symbol of Satan. Google it and you can see a picture of it.

thesunisout · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Last week I had a tradesman in my house, a nice local family fellow. He's been here before and told me he suffers some mild hyper disorder, and we seem to get along well enough. We've even bumped into each other down the street and had a 5 minute chat etc, without any religious/spiritual discussion.

So last week I felt to ask him if he believed in God, he said "yes but not the Jesus God". I said nothing then a few minutes later I said "I have no problem with the Jesus God, and mentioned how I notice Jesus gets blamed for the wickedness of man" which he agreed somewhat. I then mentioned how Jesus was the only man to live free from Sin.

Anyhow that conversation faded and later when he was talking to me he used the devil hand sign repeatedly even pointing at me with it as he rambled on about situations in his life because he knew I would listen, and I did until he got angry about the situation he was telling me about and was projecting it at me. I reproved him on the anger but didn't say anything about the devil hand sign which I don't at all welcome in my home or my property.

I felt he may have taken it personally so let it go, I didn't want to be too critical and noticed he's a bit of a potential loose cannon. I wonder how others would deal with this sort of thing in a Christian way without ignoring it or upsetting ?

It's always challenging dealing with unbelievers. Unless you feel it is a conviction from the Lord to say something, I don't know what good it will do to confront him on the devil hand sign. If it is because you are upset about it, it won't bear any fruit.

Paul said he knew nothing else except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. A lot of people say we should show Jesus in our actions instead of words but the bible doesn't ever say that. We should show Jesus in our actions AND our words, and especially our words:

Romans 1:16-17

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.

When he comes back ask the Lord what you should say and follow His promptings. Bind the power of the enemy before he ever gets on your property. Ask the Lord to grant him eyes that can see, ears that can hear and a heart that can understand the gospel.

Rakis · Apr 26, 2017

TrueBornAgain said:
Last week I had a tradesman in my house, a nice local family fellow. He's been here before and told me he suffers some mild hyper disorder, and we seem to get along well enough. We've even bumped into each other down the street and had a 5 minute chat etc, without any religious/spiritual discussion.

So last week I felt to ask him if he believed in God, he said "yes but not the Jesus God". I said nothing then a few minutes later I said "I have no problem with the Jesus God, and mentioned how I notice Jesus gets blamed for the wickedness of man" which he agreed somewhat. I then mentioned how Jesus was the only man to live free from Sin.

Anyhow that conversation faded and later when he was talking to me he used the devil hand sign repeatedly even pointing at me with it as he rambled on about situations in his life because he knew I would listen, and I did until he got angry about the situation he was telling me about and was projecting it at me. I reproved him on the anger but didn't say anything about the devil hand sign which I don't at all welcome in my home or my property.

I felt he may have taken it personally so let it go, I didn't want to be too critical and noticed he's a bit of a potential loose cannon. I wonder how others would deal with this sort of thing in a Christian way without ignoring it or upsetting ?

From life's experience and Jesus being the example to follow people don't really care how much we know until they know how much we care and I believe when there's a over flow of the spirit of God pouring out of our lives Gods at work in the hearts of others and most times we arnt aware until it starts showing up on people's countenance signaling to us maybe to talk to them about Jesus as your lead by the Holy Spirit, Hope that's helpful may God bless you in words and deed.

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