LDS How will Mormons be overcomers?

[Rescued One]

Mormonism:

"He who overcomes will retain his name in the book of life, reach godhood, and be with Jesus as He is with the Father."
Revelation 3

 

[dailyprayerwarrior]

Amen! God bless you!

 

[He is the way]

"He who overcomes will retain his name in the book of life, reach godhood, and be with Jesus as He is with the Father."
Revelation 3

"So is it possible to go and sin no more?
When you try to live this life of overcoming sin you will quickly find that it is easier said than done. Despite our good intentions we fall and fall and fall again.

“I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16. The key is to walk in the Spirit. And walking in the Spirit means being obedient to the Spirit. If we do this then it is written quite clearly what will happen. We will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. And if we don’t fulfill the lust of the flesh – the temptation to sin – then we haven’t sinned!

It is easy to come up with a myriad of reasons for why it is impossible to “go and sin no more.” You can think that Jesus was speaking specifically to the woman in question, and specifically about adultery. You can say that He said it only to teach the Pharisees a lesson and didn’t even mean what He said. You can say that He meant it as an exhortation to just try our hardest until we inevitably fall.

But the fact is that Jesus didn’t say any of those things.

What He said was, “Go and sin no more.” And I for one am convinced that Jesus meant what He said. Imagine for a second that Jesus knew exactly how things were going to go down. Imagine He knew that His words would be recorded and shared and preached among believers for 2000 years after the fact.

Imagine He chose to say, “Go and sin no more,” because His intention was that we should go and sin no more. Not once. Not a single time. And He didn’t mean just this woman, in just this situation, but all of us. All of His believers.

The Bible isn’t meant to be cut apart and examined and explained and interpreted. It’s meant to be read and obeyed. What does it say? That’s actually what it means. The Bible is the Word of God, written by God-fearing men inspired by God. There’s nothing there that shouldn’t be there. God knew what He was doing. I trust Him.

Do you?"

From: Why did Jesus say, “Go and sin no more” if that’s impossible?

 

[Ironhold]

Step 1: start moving forward.

Step 2: continue moving forward.

 

[Rescued One]

Amen! God bless you!

Do you think you're going to be a god?

 

[Rescued One]

LDS, how will Mormons be overcomers???

Is that a difficult question?

How can we have the victory over sin according to the Bible?

 

[He is the way]

LDS, how will Mormons be overcomers???

Is that a difficult question?

How can we have the victory over sin according to the Bible?

I answered that question, sin no more. When Jesus said sin no more, He meant what He said:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:19 - 22)

19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[twin.spin]

LDS, how will Mormons be overcomers???

Is that a difficult question?

How can we have the victory over sin according to the Bible?

In theory*, the Bible teaches two ways to have victory over sin thus life with Heavenly Father in heaven:

1. through Jesus’ perfection or …
2. * through a person’s own perfection

The Bible however teaches that option two is not possible: Romans 3:10-12; Isaiah 64:6; James 2:10
The only real option is trusting in Jesus’ perfection: Romans 4:5-6; John 14:6; Hebrews 10:14

It, however, doesn’t teach a third way – the LDS way. It doesn’t teach a combination of trusting in both Jesus’ perfection and personal perfection. Either a person has to trust they can do it all without the slightest hint of error or they must trust Jesus did it all.

 

[He is the way]

In theory*, the Bible teaches two ways to have victory over sin thus life with Heavenly Father in heaven:

1. through Jesus’ perfection or …
2. * through a person’s own perfection

The Bible however teaches that option two is not possible: Romans 3:10-12; Isaiah 64:6; James 2:10
The only real option is trusting in Jesus’ perfection: Romans 4:5-6; John 14:6; Hebrews 10:14

It, however, doesn’t teach a third way – the LDS way. It doesn’t teach a combination of trusting in both Jesus’ perfection and personal perfection. Either a person has to trust they can do it all without the slightest hint of error or they must trust Jesus did it all.

Yes it is a combination of the two. First we repent of our sins, then we keep the commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:3)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[Peter1000]

In theory*, the Bible teaches two ways to have victory over sin thus life with Heavenly Father in heaven:

1. through Jesus’ perfection or …
2. * through a person’s own perfection

The Bible however teaches that option two is not possible: Romans 3:10-12; Isaiah 64:6; James 2:10
The only real option is trusting in Jesus’ perfection: Romans 4:5-6; John 14:6; Hebrews 10:14

It, however, doesn’t teach a third way – the LDS way. It doesn’t teach a combination of trusting in both Jesus’ perfection and personal perfection. Either a person has to trust they can do it all without the slightest hint of error or they must trust Jesus did it all.

There is a third way:
3) Jesus's perfection and his grace upon us, and our diligence and attitude to reach perfection with the help of Jesus. So we try hard, we sin, we slide back a bit, we repent, and by the grace of Jesus he helps us up and on our way again. Until in the end we can never reach perfection without the grace of Jesus, but it is the trying that he likes.

So it is by the grace of Jesus that we are saved, after all that we can do. This simple solution reconciles all scriptures in the bible to our belief. It is simple and sublime.

 

[twin.spin]

There is a third way:
3) Jesus's perfection and his grace upon us, and our diligence and attitude to reach perfection with the help of Jesus. So we try hard, we sin, we slide back a bit, we repent, and by the grace of Jesus he helps us up and on our way again. Until in the end we can never reach perfection without the grace of Jesus, but it is the trying that he likes.

So it is by the grace of Jesus that we are saved, after all that we can do. This simple solution reconciles all scriptures in the bible to our belief. It is simple and sublime.

1) The Bible teaches no third way – the LDS way.

2) Mormonism's "grace" is nothing more than just the *power* God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

“This grace is an *enabling power* that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts” (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

“… we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).
​

Historical Biblical Christianity teaches that grace is God’s unbelievable *love* for us, not some "enabling power". The preeminent example of this love is Jesus’ doing everything to save us. He kept the law perfectly for us. He died as payment for all our sins. It is by the Biblical Christianity understanding of what "grace" is alone that we are saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[Rescued One]

1) The Bible teaches no third way – the LDS way.

2) Mormonism's "grace" is nothing more than just the *power* God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

“This grace is an *enabling power* that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts” (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

“… we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).
​

Historical Biblical Christianity teaches that grace is God’s unbelievable *love* for us, not some "enabling power". The preeminent example of this love is Jesus’ doing everything to save us. He kept the law perfectly for us. He died as payment for all our sins. It is by the Biblical Christianity understanding of what "grace" is alone that we are saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Amen! In Mormonism you have to earn eternal life; there is no other option. The reward is based on how many and which commandments you kept. For instance:

Eternal life and Exaltation are identical.

D&C 132
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth.

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

 

[Rescued One]

D&C 132:3–6. “If Ye Abide Not That Covenant, Then Are Ye Damned”

The “new and everlasting covenant” (D&C 132:4) is the covenant of celestial marriage, as President Spencer W. Kimball stated: “Though relatively few people in this world understand it, the new and everlasting covenant is the marriage ordinance in the holy temple by the properly constituted leaders who hold the genuine, authoritative keys. This glorious blessing is available to men and women on this earth.” (“Temples and Eternal Marriage,” Ensign, Aug. 1974, p. 5.)

One can sense the importance of accepting the covenant from the number of times the Lord repeats this warning:

“All who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same” (D&C 132:3).

“If ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned” (v. 4).

“No one can reject this covenant and … enter into my glory” (v. 4).

“All who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law” (v. 5).

“He that receiveth a fulness [of my glory] must and shall abide the law” (v. 6).

Section 132, Marriage: An Eternal Covenant

 

[Rescued One]

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

and that not of ourselves!

 

[He is the way]

Amen! In Mormonism you have to earn eternal life; there is no other option. The reward is based on how many and which commandments you kept. For instance:

Eternal life and Exaltation are identical.

D&C 132
1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing plural marriage are set forth.

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
Doctrine and Covenants 132

Jesus said eternal life will be granted to those who keep the commandments, and I believe Him.

 

[Peter1000]

1) The Bible teaches no third way – the LDS way.

2) Mormonism's "grace" is nothing more than just the *power* God gives people to save themselves, which he grants only after they have done everything they can do.

“This grace is an *enabling power* that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts” (LDS Bible Dictionary, p. 697).

“… we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23).
​

Historical Biblical Christianity teaches that grace is God’s unbelievable *love* for us, not some "enabling power". The preeminent example of this love is Jesus’ doing everything to save us. He kept the law perfectly for us. He died as payment for all our sins. It is by the Biblical Christianity understanding of what "grace" is alone that we are saved (Ephesians 2:8-9).

Is there any circumstance that once you have believed and confessed Jesus that you can lose your salvation?

 

[Rescued One]

Jesus said eternal life will be granted to those who keep the commandments, and I believe Him.

You believe the fictional son of a fictional exalted man.


Galatians 5
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

[Rescued One]

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

"Salvation by grace through faith allows men to be ambassadors of good to please God. We expect no special reward!"

 

[Rescued One]

Is there any circumstance that once you have believed and confessed Jesus that you can lose your salvation?

Those who were brought to Jesus by the Father can't lose salvation. Jesus said that.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[twin.spin]

Is there any circumstance that once you have believed and confessed Jesus that you can lose your salvation?

This is a two part answer:
1) Most Lutheran Church denominations that I'm aware of reject the teaching that believers can never fall from faith i.e. (‘once saved, always saved’).

The Bible teaches it is possible for believers to fall from faith (1 Corinthians 10:12) .. also verses like: Luke 8:13; Galatians 5:4; 1 Timothy 1:19; and, 2 Peter 3:17-18.

But more importantly …. as Phoebe referenced, at the same time we cling to our God’s promise that he will guard and protect our faith to the end. (John 10:28).​

___________________________________________________________________________

2) Is there any circumstance? Sure.
Scriptures warns about false prophets \ false teachers \ false Christs for a reason.