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winsome
English, not British
Another way to what?
There is no other way to know God as Father than through knowing Jesus. If you do not know Jesus then you can only know God as a remote God, for only by becoming a Christian do we become children of God and brothers and sisters of Jesus. Chapter 14 of John is all about knowing God as Father and when we become children of God we can approach God as our Father.
Do you believe those who have never had the gospel preached to them are automatically damned?
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I see no Biblical reason to think otherwise.
Romans 1:18-20 (NKJV)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
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Sure it is. They were baptizing in the NT long before Jesus died.
Are you saying someone cannot be saved on his deathbed without being baptized? You're being awfully vague about this.
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winsome
English, not British
You make my point. It was (and is) possible for those who have not had the gospel preached to them to know God.
because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead
Paul is condemning those who despite being able to know God continue in sin and ungodliness. As he says in verse 32:
Although they know the just decree of God that all who practice such things deserve death
So what about those who know the just decree of God but do NOT practice such things?
As Paul says Does God belong to Jews alone? Does he not belong to Gentiles, too? Yes, also to Gentiles (Rom 3:29)
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So they intentionally disobeyed Jesus?
Acts 2:38 (NKJV)
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 8:16 (NKJV)
16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Acts 19:5-6 (NKJV)
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
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But that's not what I said. It's ONLY through Jesus, not just because of Him.
1 Timothy 2:5 (NKJV)
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
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winsome
English, not British
No. Baptism "in the name of Jesus" was just the description of baptism to differentiate it from John's baptism, and possible other baptisms that were going on - such as that practiced by the Essenes.
But the words they said when baptising would be "in the name of the Father and Son and of the Holy Spirit"
It's similar to the Eucharist. We tend to call it the Eucharist. In scriptures it was referred to as "the breaking of bread", but the actual words of concecration are the words that Jesus spoke "This is my body which will be given for you"
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Lord have mercy!
"they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus"
"They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus"
"be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ"
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razeontherock
Well-Known Member
False dichotomy:
"it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. - I Cor 1:21
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winsome
English, not British
If someone put their faith in Christ and wants to be baptized, but through no fault of their own, dies before being baptized. The Catholic Church says that in this case they will receive the fruits of baptism even though they havent been baptised.
Baptism is the normal way that Jesus gave us to be saved. That doesnt means that there are no exceptional circumstances when God will act in a different way if he chooses. He is merciful and just. What we have to avoid is trying to claim that the exceptional circumstances are normal and then dismissing the normal. Its not up to us to put aside what God has given us and do it our way.
Exceptions dont invalidate the normal way.
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He is clearly condemning everyone who refuses to believe because WE ALL KNOW BETTER. We can see God's creation. Yes, even those who have not been preached to. Not including children, retarded, etc.
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You can think what you like but I think there a lot of Christians who haven't been baptized, who are truly saved. It is not mandatory for salvation. You just said so.
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winsome
English, not British
Try answering my point.
Do you not see a differentiation between a name given to something and the actual words or actions performed in carrying out the action?
We do it all the time. Do we say "catching a train" or "going to the ticket office, buying a ticket, walking to the platform and when the train arrives opening the door and getting onto the train" ?
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