How was Moses saved ??

[dan p]

Hi to all and many who believe in a Covenant , here is a question for you all !!

How was Moses saved under the Law ?

By Law ??

By Grace ??


Or by Faith ?

Which was it and where is your proof ?

dan p

 

[dan p]

Hi to all and many who believe in a Covenant , here is a question for you all !!

How was Moses saved under the Law ?

By Law ??

By Grace ??


Or by Faith ?

Which was it and where is your proof ?

dan p

Hi and this is how I sse salvation for Moses !!


Turn to Heb 11:28 !!


#1 , Salvation has ALWAYS BEEN BY FAITH , and Moses had Faith .


#2 , Moses was in Covenant relationship with God , always !!


#3 , Moses did what FAITH was asked of him in verse 28 .


#4 , Moses kept the Jewish Passover ( Matt 26:17-29 ) and then Sprinked the Blood .

#5 , Is this what you all do today ?? Kill a Lamb and Sprink the blood on the door posts .

#6 , There are 2 Different Gospels here ONE for Israel !!


#7, Saved by Faith and doing what Faith Required , killing a Lamb and sprinking of Blood !!


#8 , And one for Gentiles , Eph 2:8 , saved by FAITH of God !!


dan p

 

[tzadik]

Hi and this is how I sse salvation for Moses !!


Turn to Heb 11:28 !!


#1 , Salvation has ALWAYS BEEN BY FAITH , and Moses had Faith .

By grace through faith. Or better said by grace through trusting faithfulness.

#2 , Moses was in Covenant relationship with God , always !!

Just as all believers enter a Covenant relationship with God.

#3 , Moses did what FAITH was asked of him in verse 28 .

It’s called trusting faithfulness, or real faith, one that always manifests itself in action. Faith without works = dead faith.

#4 , Moses kept the Jewish Passover ( Matt 26:17-29 ) and then Sprinked the Blood .

Exactly as God commanded Him to do. Aka Obedience.

#5 , Is this what you all do today ?? Kill a Lamb and Sprink the blood on the door posts .

If you were to look at the Passover Instructions given by God to His people (after Moses did it initially) we’d see that it takes place in a Temple setting. No Temple=No sacrificing of the Lamb. It’s actually a commandment that we are not to sacrifice outside of the Temple (and Levitical Priesthood). Obviously in Messiah’s time on earth, the Temple was still standing and therefore the “sacrificing” was still practiced.

#6 , There are 2 Different Gospels here ONE for Israel !!

Unfortunately this is an incorrect statement. There is only one Good News. Not two. One way to salvation. Not two.
In fact if you were to look at Galatians 3:8 you’d see that the very same Gospel preached to you and me today was the one preached beforehand to Abraham Awesome ain’t it? God’s ways, including His Good News does NOT change.

#7, Saved by Faith and doing what Faith Required , killing a Lamb and sprinking of Blood !!

Are you really implying that the people of Israel who escaped Egypt, earned their eternal salvation by sprinkling blood on their doorposts? As in the fathers’ were responsible for the eternal salvation of his family members?

#8 , And one for Gentiles , Eph 2:8 , saved by FAITH of God !!

Actually, this is the one and only way ANYONE from Adam to you and me were, are and will be saved. There is no “two gospels”. Only one. By grace through faith we are all saved. There’s only ONE way that leads to Him
There is only ONE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD. ONE FAITH. ONE BAPTISM. ONE LORD. ONE SEED. ONE WORD! Thank God!

 

[Lion King]

Hi to all and many who believe in a Covenant , here is a question for you all !!

How was Moses saved under the Law ?

By Law ??

By Grace ??


Or by Faith ?

Which was it and where is your proof ?

dan p

The same way everyone will be saved...by believing in God.

 

[dan p]

By grace through faith. Or better said by grace through trusting faithfulness.



Just as all believers enter a Covenant relationship with God.


quote]


hI , where is the meat ?? OR where is the proof with a verse ??

dan p

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi to all and many who believe in a Covenant , here is a question for you all !!

How was Moses saved under the Law ?

By Law ??

By Grace ??


Or by Faith ?

Which was it and where is your proof ?

dan p

He wasn't "saved" because the BIBLICAL definition of "saved" is delivered from the power of sin, and the Old Covenant did not make provision for this, it only made provision for cleansing from sin so that a man might still remain in Covenant Relationship with God.

Neither was there any provision under the Old Covenant for eternal life, which is what you are mistakenly calling "saved." Neither eternal life, nor salvation, was provided for in the OT, which is why (as I showed you earlier on another thread, that you unmindedly dismissed without cause) when the "time for reformation" came, Jesus appeared and set up the New Covenant which provides for both salvation and eternal life.

I don't think you belong on this section of the forum, this is for those who agree with scripture and understand that God works in Redemption through Covenants - and all you are here for is to argue against that very well established fact.

 

[tzadik]

By grace through faith. Or better said by grace through trusting faithfulness.



Just as all believers enter a Covenant relationship with God.

hI , where is the meat ?? OR where is the proof with a verse ??

dan p

um...trusting faithfulness is the correct definition of the Greek word for faith (Pistos).

And all believers who have joined themselves to the God of Israel, have gone from being strangers to the covenants and promises to fellow-heirs and fellow partakers.
I didn't know you needed a verse for that...but I'll provide a few.

Ephesians 2:12-13 and the end result in 19-22

Before:
12. remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
13. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.


After:
19. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,
20. having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21. in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22. in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Ephesians 3:5-6
5. which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
6. to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Romans 11:16-17
16. If the first piece of dough is holy, the lump is also; and if the root is holy, the branches are too.
17. But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:6-10
6. who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7. to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8. but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10. but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

You see dan, God's plan hasn't changed.
The Gospel was preached FIRST to the Jews, and now ALSO to the Gentiles.
.....Not First to the Jews, then changed and preached a new gospel to the Gentiles.
It's the same Gospel. The same one preached to Abraham!

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi and this is how I sse salvation for Moses !!


Turn to Heb 11:28 !!

Hebrews 11:28
By faith he kept the Passover and sprinkled the blood, so that the Destroyer of the firstborn might not touch them.

Your point is not very observable.

#1 , Salvation has ALWAYS BEEN BY FAITH , and Moses had Faith .

Not according to scripture, faith is a prerequisite, and obedience "seals the deal." Eternal life has ALWAYS been by "trust and obey, for there is no other way." Even a child understands this.

#2 , Moses was in Covenant relationship with God , always !!

Negative...and since you are trying to be big on demanding evidence from others, where is your passage of scripture that proves this? Moses was not in Covenant with God until God made the Covenant on Mt. Sinai.

#3 , Moses did what FAITH was asked of him in verse 28 .

Yes, and because of his obedience God could work through him.

#4 , Moses kept the Jewish Passover ( Matt 26:17-29 ) and then Sprinked the Blood .

Again, what is your point?

#5 , Is this what you all do today ?? Kill a Lamb and Sprink the blood on the door posts .

Are you sure you even THINK you know what you are talking about?

#6 , There are 2 Different Gospels here ONE for Israel !!

Obviously not, because there is only one Gospel, the Gospel of the Kingdom of God which was not made available to man until Christ came to open that door - through the New Covenant.

#7, Saved by Faith and doing what Faith Required , killing a Lamb and sprinking of Blood !!

Nope...eternal life, neither salvation, was given to man and made possible until the New Covenant, which is why it came.

#8 , And one for Gentiles , Eph 2:8 , saved by FAITH of God !!

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

You don't understand this passage...which you cannot until you begin taking the whole Word of God together instead of making it fight against each other. Grace is available to all, but only those who exercise faith can enter into that grace. Grace is available to us all, but can only be entered into by participating in the NC. Saved is deliverance from sin, and it is available in the Atonement that is provided for through the Covenant. And eternal life is a promised gift of the NC, which is not available to any but those in the Covenant.

 

[tzadik]

He wasn't "saved" because the BIBLICAL definition of "saved" is delivered from the power of sin, and the Old Covenant did not make provision for this, it only made provision for cleansing from sin so that a man might still remain in Covenant Relationship with God.

Neither was there any provision under the Old Covenant for eternal life, which is what you are mistakenly calling "saved." Neither eternal life, nor salvation, was provided for in the OT, which is why (as I showed you earlier on another thread, that you unmindedly dismissed without cause) when the "time for reformation" came, Jesus appeared and set up the New Covenant which provides for both salvation and eternal life.

I don't think you belong on this section of the forum, this is for those who agree with scripture and understand that God works in Redemption through Covenants - and all you are here for is to argue against that very well established fact.

As in...you believe the death and resurrection of the Messiah was a linear event?
The Holy lamb of God wasn't slain before the foundation of the world?

Do you mean to tell me that everyone up until the thief on the cross were not saved from the power of sin???

Am I misunderstanding you?

 

[ReformedPharisee]

As in...you believe the death and resurrection of the Messiah was a linear event? The Holy lamb of God wasn't slain before the foundation of the world?

Let's look at the meaning of what you bring up. Was Christ REALLY slain from the foundation of the world, or is that hyperbole? We know that God's plan of redemption planned this event before God created anything, but are you trying to say that God crucified Christ two times? Exactly what are you trying to insinuate?

Do you mean to tell me that everyone up until the thief on the cross were not saved from the power of sin??? Am I misunderstanding you?

That is exactly what Scripture teaches. The Old Covenant provided for atonement for the people in order that they could be cleansed from accidental sin, and be reconciled back to God. We can accurately state that this was a limited atonement under the Old Covenant, otherwise once a man was atoned for, there would be no reason for him to come back again when he sinned again.

The OC did not provide for deliverance from the power of sin - no where, and you will not find a passage that states that it did. This is another reason why Christ came to establish the New Covenant - because in it is provided for ETERNAL Atonement (not limited atonement) and deliverance from the power and bondage to sin. What the Old Covenant did not provide...for if it had, there would be no reason for the New Covenant...

Hebrews 8:6-7
6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

Hebrews 10:9-11
9 then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.
10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

The atonement under the Old Covenant pushed the sins of the people forward every year until Christ paid for them, then they were eternally atoned for, then all those who were waiting in Abraham's bosom for atonement were lead by Christ into glory. They couldn't go into heaven until their sins were eternally atoned for, and that didn't happen until Christ came and provided it according to the dictates of the New Covenant.

Shalom!

 

[dan p]

?
The Holy lamb of God wasn't slain before the foundation of the world?


Am I misunderstanding you?

Hi , and Rec 13:8 says , " slain from the Foundation of the world " , will you reconsider ??

dan p

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Hi , and Rec 13:8 says , " slain from the Foundation of the world " , will you reconsider ??

dan p

dan...are you serious? in this context they mean virtually the same thing.

 

[dan p]

Let's look at the meaning of what you bring up. Was Christ REALLY slain from the foundation of the world, or is that hyperbole? We /quote]


Hi , and this the secone time that I have written this , that answers the above quote ,

Rev 13:8 answers this False belief , " of the Lamb Slain from the FOUNDATION of the world , dan p

 

[ReformedPharisee]

Let's look at the meaning of what you bring up. Was Christ REALLY slain from the foundation of the world, or is that hyperbole? We /quote]


Hi , and this the secone time that I have written this , that answers the above quote ,

Rev 13:8 answers this False belief , " of the Lamb Slain from the FOUNDATION of the world , dan p

I don't see your point, dan. If you have good Greek resources to go by, you will recognize this...

The whole expression, "the foundation of the world," is equivalent to the phrase found in Mar_10:6; Mar_13:19, "from the beginning of the creation [ap’ archḗs {G746}, from the beginning; ktíseōs {G2937}, creation]."

This being the case, your "point" is moot to the conversation. The word for "from" is equivalent to "before" meaning that before the foundation of the world was lain. All this does is specify that God planned before He even started to create the physical cosmos, He would come to earth as the Messiah and become our propitiatory sacrifice.

 

[James4_14]

***Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
***Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;

Read and compare. It was NOT the Lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world. Those were martyrs of whom are spoken. Jesus was slain during His first advent. Not sooner than that. Those written in the Lamb's Book of Life are....MARTYRS. Plain and simple.

 

[dcyates]

Hi to all and many who believe in a Covenant , here is a question for you all !!

How was Moses saved under the Law ?

By Law ??

By Grace ??


Or by Faith ?

Which was it and where is your proof ?

dan p

By grace, through the faithfulness of God.