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How to prove God exists.

Freodin

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I never claimed that it is a good parody.
It does illustrate an attitude of being surrounded by the obvious and yet claiming not to see it.

BTW
I don't consider that cartoon a joke.
One thing that I have noticed about a certain type of people claiming "the obvious" is that they are never able to explain it or answer the objections.

As examplified by this cartoon, and your response to my objection.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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I already did that, by using your provided "criteria of design" and pointing out the function/purpose of white fur in polar bears.

Your response was an ad hoc and unsupported statement that read "ow, it was already programmed into the dna!!!!"

Later on, in another thread if memory serves me right, I asked you to confirm that "natural design" doesn't require any "planning or foresight", which you listed as properties of "design with intent", ie: unnatural design. You denied and started rambling about how that is also "intelligent design" - effectively implying that you'll just call everything "designed", no matter what it is.

As I said in those threads as well, your argument amounts to nothing more or less then "heads I win, tails you lose!"


For the record: the very real, very testable, very observable and very demonstrable processes of biological evolution explain exactly that: how complex interconnected systems can come about through the blind forces of nature. It accounts for all the facts and it is very testable.
 
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TBDude65

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I am still wondering if I will get a response to my questions:

How do you know that the universe requires a creator? How do you know that the universe has an initial "first" cause? How do you get from "first cause" to the conclusion that this is a god and not an unintelligent and natural process?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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what is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

So, dear Loudmouth and Oh ye atheists, you have never produced any no nonsense argument for God not existing

Blatant shift of the burden of proof.
It's you, as the theist, who's making the assertion that a god exists.
Upto you to provide supportive evidence for that claim.

, so I have to dismiss you all as of no relevancy in the debate on God existing or not.

There actually is no debate. There's just you making claims and we asking you to support them, after which you just try to shift the burden of proof.

Anyway, it is my most addictive hobby to witness how atheists do no thinking, but talk all the time as to in effect play hide and seek.

Maybe you should search for a more interesting hobby.
Like, providing evidence for your own claims.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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So, what do you claim at all if any claim you do have at all, on the issue God exists or not?

An atheist's atheism is defined by one thing only.

And that is not answering "yes" to the question "do you believe a god exists".

And that's it. Atheism not a claim. It is a response to a claim.

Get over it.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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That Ostrich illustration better represents the atheist modus operandi each time that they encounter the obvious conclusion of an ID but which they cannot stomach.

Why do you insist on dishonestly continuing with accusations that have been shown to you to be utterly false?

Francis Collins, well-respected biologist and devout christian, rejects ID.
Ken Miller, well-respected biologist and devout christian, testified and demonstrated under oath at the Dover trial that ID is not science, but just another species of creationism.
The judge of that trial, another devout christian, agreed with him and ruled that ID is just creationism disguised in a lab coat.

There are many more examples, but I only need one to show how your assanine claim that rejection of ID is somehow related to atheism is utterly false.

And I already gave you these examples on various occasions these past few days.

Yet, here you are again, today, repeating the same false accusations.
 
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Radrook

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I don't see how providing those examples of people agreeing to be irrational changes the irrational nature of the atheist argument.
 
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TBDude65

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I don't see how providing those examples of people agreeing to be irrational changes the irrational nature of the atheist argument.

What is irrational about not holding a god belief because of the paucity of evidence for a god?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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I don't see how providing those examples of people agreeing to be irrational changes the irrational nature of the atheist argument.

Theists rejecting ID, for the exact same reasons that atheists are rejecting it, falsifies the claim that ID is rejected due to atheism.

It really is that simple. Deal with it.
 
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Radrook

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What is irrational about not holding a god belief because of the paucity of evidence for a god?
What I clearly said is that I see no logical reason why you should expect me or anyone else to abandon our belief in an ID simply because you mention some individuals who happen to support an irrational idea. Is that an appeal to bandwagon of some kind?
 
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TBDude65

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You claimed it is the "atheist position" when the only atheist position is a lack of belief in a god. So how is your interpretation of someone's irrational personal argument equivalent with it being the "atheist position?"
 
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Radrook

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You claimed it is the "atheist position" when the only atheist position is a lack of belief in a god. So how is your interpretation of someone's irrational personal argument equivalent with it being the "atheist position?"
First, I disagree with not making a clear distinction between atheist and agnostic. The only thing that accomplishes is confusion. If indeed you don't know one way or the other whether God exists then you are an agnostic in my book. If you claim that God doesn't exist, then you are an atheist. Very simple so why complicate it?

Anyway, you are misunderstanding what I said as usual and it all has to do with the above unnecessary embellishments.

 
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TBDude65

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I am not misunderstanding your position, you made a claim about the "atheist position" which effectively means you are saying you know what my position is because I am an atheist. You are over-generalizing.

Also, I didn't say I don't know my own opinion on god's existence. So you don't get to define me as agnostic or atheist.

Atheist = lack of a belief in a god
Agnostic = uncertain about whether they believe a god exists or not

One can be an agnostic atheist if one so chooses because they can say that they lack a belief in a god, but they are uncertain if one does or doesn't exist.

I am an atheist in that I lack a belief in a god because of the paucity of evidence. Because I lack a belief in a god, I don't believe that god(s) exist. That does not define what I do believe nor does it assign the aforementioned "atheist position" to me.
 
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Radrook

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Then the term atheist isn't applicable. The term which is more applicable is agnostic. That is my opinion. In that case you need not take umbrage about anything that is said in reference to atheism, or theism since you aren't sure one way or the other. For example, if I were neutral in reference to the argument between Democrats and Republicans, then why should I take sides?
 
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TBDude65

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Agnostic is more applicable to what? Your gross over-generalization or me?
 
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Radrook

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A- absent; theism - belief in a god(s)

atheism = absent a belief in a god(s)

Why do theists insist on making this more complex and altering definitions of words?
The one who is complicating it isn't me. The ones complicating it are those who say it means much more than what it basically says.
 
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