How to know you're saved...

[k4c]

There is first a positional salvation and then an experiential salvation. The first leads to the second.

In the first we come to realize our need for a Savior and receive Christ as that Savior. The first is more of an understanding that leads to a new way of thinking, which is called being born again.

The second is experiential were sin starts becoming sinful. In this we begin to experience that obeying God is more desirable than disobeying God.

Positional salvation is not a guarantee of eternal life in the end but it is a guarantee that you have Christ now, who is eternal life. Experiential salvation is the affirmation that we have Christ and are abiding in Him.

 

[stork321]

There is first a positional salvation and then an experiential salvation. The first leads to the second.

In the first we come to realize our need for a Savior and receive Christ as that Savior. The first is more of an understanding that leads to a new way of thinking, which is called being born again.

The second is experiential were sin starts becoming sinful. In this we begin to experience that obeying God is more desirable than disobeying God.

Positional salvation is not a guarantee of eternal life in the end but it is a guarantee that you have Christ now, who is eternal life. Experiential salvation is the affirmation that we have Christ and are abiding in Him.

Amen...good points k4c

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And what do we need in our quest for our salvation?

a. The holy Scriptures.
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2Timothy 3:15

b. To look to God.
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am the God, and none else. Isaiah 45:22

c. To believe in gospel of Christ.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

d. To look for Christ's return.
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many: and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Amen brother!

The milk leading to the meat...

 

[JohnMarsten]

as a mere human being we cannot declare of our own accord that we are saved, but we can believe it in it and be assured that the proces of being born again will be fulfilled by the Holy Spirit, if we had to rely on our own strength, work and works, we would be lost very soon I guess...

 

[keyboard321]

How to know if we're saved?

hmmmm.....



We'll know if we're saved if we don't receive the wrath of God during that notable day

 

[k4c]

How to know if we're saved?

hmmmm.....



We'll know if we're saved if we don't receive the wrath of God during that notable day

If you're not experiencing an assurance of salvation now you might be disappointed on that day. The assurance of salvation will be accompanied by a hunger and thirst for righteousness.

 

[keyboard321]

If you're not experiencing an assurance of salvation now you might be disappointed on that day. The assurance of salvation will be accompanied by a hunger and thirst for righteousness.

to that brother

what I'm trying to reach out in my post is...

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

but those who believe in the Son shall have the everlasting life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

for everlasting life is the promise of God for those who are saved during that notable day

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

That's why we should abide in Him so that we will have confidence and not be ashamed during in His coming

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

 

[JohnMarsten]

in the end I must say this is a frightening topic

sometimes you feel you are really close to God, lets say after you have experienced something, I always say, wow, no matter how big or small the experience is, but then after having sinned, lets say misbehaved in a way that I have hurt somebody, I feel like drowning, and it takes a while to recompose...

 

[k4c]

in the end I must say this is a frightening topic

sometimes you feel you are really close to God, lets say after you have experienced something, I always say, wow, no matter how big or small the experience is, but then after having sinned, lets say misbehaved in a way that I have hurt somebody, I feel like drowning, and it takes a while to recompose...

We need to let the word of God govern our feelings. There are times when we may feel that God is far away, but He's not. Remember, where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. The warnings of falling from grace comes when we begin to believe it's all about us and our behavior. Behavior and good works are symptoms of salvation, not a means to salvation. One will use their good behavior as a standard to judge others while the other will have the attitude and understanding that, "It's only by the grace of God I go".

 

[Princessdi]

You know we tend to make salvation so very difficult. We know we are saved because of Christ's finished work by His death and resurrection. He need not do anything else to save us.

Now that said.......we need to acknowledge that salvation by accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior and entering into relationship with Him. it is a little like falling in a hole, having someone drop a rope down for you to climp out, and not climbing out. Did salvation come, yes, but you had to at least grap the rope and climb up to be rescued.

All those other things already mentioned will come out of that relationship. It iwill be a joy to do the things that please Him, to spend time in study about other's experiences with him(Bible), to take time in prayer(conversation) with Him, to joyfully tell your friends about Him. those of you in relationships/marriages think aobut when you first met or even now. think about all the things you do that you really don't like, but only to please your mate. You don't even think of it as a struggle or sacrifice, because you love them, want to please them, treasure that relationship.

Ok, ok, sorry, I just get excited with start talking about a relationship with christ.......I'll remove myself fromteh pulpit now....LOL!!! Carry on!

 

[JohnMarsten]

You know we tend to make salvation so very difficult. We know we are saved because of Christ's finished work by His death and resurrection. He need not do anything else to save us.

Now that said.......we need to acknowledge that salvation by accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior and entering into relationship with Him. it is a little like falling in a hole, having someone drop a rope down for you to climp out, and not climbing out. Did salvation come, yes, but you had to at least grap the rope and climb up to be rescued.

All those other things already mentioned will come out of that relationship. It iwill be a joy to do the things that please Him, to spend time in study about other's experiences with him(Bible), to take time in prayer(conversation) with Him, to joyfully tell your friends about Him. those of you in relationships/marriages think aobut when you first met or even now. think about all the things you do that you really don't like, but only to please your mate. You don't even think of it as a struggle or sacrifice, because you love them, want to please them, treasure that relationship.

Ok, ok, sorry, I just get excited with start talking about a relationship with christ.......I'll remove myself fromteh pulpit now....LOL!!! Carry on!

well, for me this is a very mysterious topic,

for me it is a feeling of being blotted out of the book of life when I have sinned and stuff, it usually takes a couple of days to recompose myself and IT IS THEN that I am most thankful for the grace of God that lets me re-enter the Race... but is during that time that I think of Paul's statement that he still has to subdue his body/flesh lest he be disqualified in spite of having preached the word to others... well, its not that you can ask God to tell you if you are saved or not, and if he told you that you are gonna be saved forever, it might even have a negative effect on your character, well, like I always use to say: everyone has to carry his own cross and have faith in Jesus that the Holy Spirit will accomplish the matters that are out of reach for me...

 

[k4c]

You know we tend to make salvation so very difficult. We know we are saved because of Christ's finished work by His death and resurrection. He need not do anything else to save us.

Now that said.......we need to acknowledge that salvation by accepting Jesus Christ as our Savior and entering into relationship with Him. it is a little like falling in a hole, having someone drop a rope down for you to climp out, and not climbing out. Did salvation come, yes, but you had to at least grap the rope and climb up to be rescued.

All those other things already mentioned will come out of that relationship. It iwill be a joy to do the things that please Him, to spend time in study about other's experiences with him(Bible), to take time in prayer(conversation) with Him, to joyfully tell your friends about Him. those of you in relationships/marriages think aobut when you first met or even now. think about all the things you do that you really don't like, but only to please your mate. You don't even think of it as a struggle or sacrifice, because you love them, want to please them, treasure that relationship.

Ok, ok, sorry, I just get excited with start talking about a relationship with christ.......I'll remove myself fromteh pulpit now....LOL!!! Carry on!

Great post but I would go one step further.

Read and listen very carefully.

1 John 5:10-11 who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

The testimony is that God has given us His Son and in His Son is eternal life. We don't have eternal life because we have not believed the testimony that God has given us eternal life. In this we make Him a liar.

Now let me interpret this in light of your post.

The whole world was in a hole and God saved us all without us needing to grab the rope. The problem is, we jump back into the hole by not believing the testimony that God has already given us eternal life.

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Now go preach the good news and sin no more.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The whole world was in a hole and God saved us all without us needing to grab the rope. The problem is, we jump back into the hole by not believing the testimony that God has already given us eternal life.

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Now go preach the good news and sin no more.

I like your analogy but to me we are not out of the hole til Jesus comes in the clouds. The ropes that are put down for anyone to grasp onto symbolize the free gift of salvation. We grasp on to the promise and slowly climb higher and higher to the mark of getting out of the hole through faith, grace and obedience. God is telling us to climb once we have taken ahold of the rope, not to just hang around at the bottom of the hole lest we let it go, feeling no need of our the rope. On the bottom of the hole we have our own self reliance in standing but once we are in the air we have nothing but God for strength in holding on. As long as we are holding on wherever we are on that rope when Jesus calls us forth, we will all be pulled up out of the hole and will be saved.

Alot of people will walk up to and touch the ropes and maybe even grab onto them but will never endevour to climb. When the rope gets hoisted out of the hole on that last day they have a loose grip onto it and it will slip away whereas the people that have been climbing already have their grip firmly onto the promise and won't get caught unawares.

Sister White used the same kind of analogy of the golden strand that we are to grasp onto as we climb the precarious, steep and ever narrowing path to heaven. We are not able to be stationary as the illumination that lights our way is ever moving upward and we have to keep our focus on Jesus leading the way and stay in the light.

 

[k4c]

EastCoastRemnant; I like your analogy but to me we are not out of the hole til Jesus comes in the clouds. The ropes that are put down for anyone to grasp onto symbolize the free gift of salvation. We grasp on to the promise and slowly climb higher and higher to the mark of getting out of the hole through faith, grace and obedience. God is telling us to climb once we have taken ahold of the rope, not to just hang around at the bottom of the hole lest we let it go, feeling no need of our the rope. On the bottom of the hole we have our own self reliance in standing but once we are in the air we have nothing but God for strength in holding on. As long as we are holding on wherever we are on that rope when Jesus calls us forth, we will all be pulled up out of the hole and will be saved.

My question to this is, do we get eternal life once we get out of the hole or when we grab the rope?

To me God has given us eternal life already the quesion is, what are we going to do with it. When we believe the testimony, which is God has already given us eternal life we can experience it in our lives and continue to live on at His coming. Remember, both the righteous and the wicked will be raised to life again because Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. I think sometimes we confuse sanctification with grabbing the rope and getting out of the hole. I believe God has already taken the world out of hole now go and sin no more.

Alot of people will walk up to and touch the ropes and maybe even grab onto them but will never endevour to climb. When the rope gets hoisted out of the hole on that last day they have a loose grip onto it and it will slip away whereas the people that have been climbing already have their grip firmly onto the promise and won't get caught unawares.

Grabbing the rope to me is when we truely believe we already have eternal life as a free gift whether we grab the rope or not. God always seems to give the gifts first and then He watches what we do with them.

Remember, the testimony has to be believed first and what is the testimony? The testimony is this that God has already given us eternal life otherwise what is the testimony? If we don't believe testimony we call God a liar because we have not believed the testimony and the testimony is that God has already given us eternal life.

1 John 5:10-11 who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

Sister White used the same kind of analogy of the golden strand that we are to grasp onto as we climb the precarious, steep and ever narrowing path to heaven. We are not able to be stationary as the illumination that lights our way is ever moving upward and we have to keep our focus on Jesus leading the way and stay in the light.

To me, dead men can't grab or climb so there has to be life given first in order to grab the rope. If this is the case then the grabbing and climbing is an after the fact because we believed the testimony, which now makes it sanctification.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

My question to this is, do we get eternal life once we get out of the hole or when we grab the rope?

To me God has given us eternal life already the quesion is, what are we going to do with it. When we believe the testimony, which is God has already given us eternal life we can experience it in our lives and continue to live on at His coming. Remember, both the righteous and the wicked will be raised to life again because Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. I think sometimes we confuse sanctification with grabbing the rope and getting out of the hole. I believe God has already taken the world out of hole now go and sin no more.



Grabbing the rope to me is when we truely believe we already have eternal life as a free gift whether we grab the rope or not. God always seems to give the gifts first and then He watches what we do with them.

Remember, the testimony has to be believed first and what is the testimony? The testimony is this that God has already given us eternal life otherwise what is the testimony? If we don't believe testimony we call God a liar because we have not believed the testimony and the testimony is that God has already given us eternal life.

1 John 5:10-11 who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.



To me, dead men can't grab or climb so there has to be life given first in order to grab the rope. If this is the case then the grabbing and climbing is an after the fact because we believed the testimony, which now makes it sanctification.

I know we are on the same page so maybe my analogy wasn't as clear as it could be.

The grabbing of the rope is because we recognize (through the Holy Spirit) what the rope represents and we realize our need of the rope....

You asked if we are saved when we get pulled out of the hole or when we first grab onto the rope.... I beleive we are always in danger of slipping down the rope and potentially letting go of it altogether. The Bible gives many examples warning us against 'losing' our salvation. Until our names come up in judgement and we are found in the book or not, we would be arrogant to state the status of our salvation. We have the hope and the assurance that salvation is possible for us, but only God sees the totality of our hearts and the light given us and judges us accordingly. Being ever distrustful of my own merits and actions keeps me humble and constantly seeking the Lord. We are to be as Jacob, wrestling and pleading for the blessing continually....

 

[k4c]

I know we are on the same page so maybe my analogy wasn't as clear as it could be.

The grabbing of the rope is because we recognize (through the Holy Spirit) what the rope represents and we realize our need of the rope....

You asked if we are saved when we get pulled out of the hole or when we first grab onto the rope.... I beleive we are always in danger of slipping down the rope and potentially letting go of it altogether. The Bible gives many examples warning us against 'losing' our salvation. Until our names come up in judgement and we are found in the book or not, we would be arrogant to state the status of our salvation. We have the hope and the assurance that salvation is possible for us, but only God sees the totality of our hearts and the light given us and judges us accordingly. Being ever distrustful of my own merits and actions keeps me humble and constantly seeking the Lord. We are to be as Jacob, wrestling and pleading for the blessing continually....

I enjoy breaking bread with you.

What are your thoughts on where sin abounds grace much more abounds? I'll share my thoughts on this after you.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

What are your thoughts on where sin abounds grace much more abounds? I'll share my thoughts on this after you.

To be honest, I haven't given it a great deal of thought or study, but I know what it means to me on a basic level. To my understanding, it is the promise that no matter what we have done against Him, or will do, God's love has already forgiven us. I think about the parable of the prodigal son when I try and contemplate this concept. The fear and seperation from God is our own construct... our guilt and shame keeps us from seeing Him as He is, always and forever before us with His arms open, ready to embrace us.

 

[k4c]

To be honest, I haven't given it a great deal of thought or study, but I know what it means to me on a basic level. To my understanding, it is the promise that no matter what we have done against Him, or will do, God's love has already forgiven us. I think about the parable of the prodigal son when I try and contemplate this concept. The fear and seperation from God is our own construct... our guilt and shame keeps us from seeing Him as He is, always and forever before us with His arms open, ready to embrace us.

Sweet!!!

God is more concerned with our relationship with Him than He is with our short falls. He doesn't want our behevior to keep us away from Him nor does He want us to obey Him out of fear. The grace of God promotes and inspires obedience motived by love freely expressing itself without fear. Our motive for obeying God should never be motivated by the glories of heaven or the fear of hell, but rather, love. The pure grace of God provokes us to love. Grace is not the motive by which God saves us, but rather, the actual mechanism that God uses to save us.

How one loses salvation is when they fall from grace and how one falls from grace is when they turn the Law to be justified rather than accepting the free gift through Christ. They bring upon themselves guilt and condemnation because who can keep the Law perfectly before a holy God? You know you're beginning to justify yourself through the Law when you begin to judge, condemn and look down on others. You begin to have that self righteous attitude that says or thinks in the heart, "I'm glad I'm not like that person, a tax collector and a sinner" or when someone sins against us we demand to be made whole.

Matt 18:21 Then Peter came to him and said, "Lord, how many times must I forgive my brother who sins against me? As many as seven times?"
Matt 18:22 Jesus said to him, "Not seven times, I tell you, but seventy-seven times!
Matt 18:23 "For this reason, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his slaves.

Matt 18:24 As he began settling his accounts, a man who owed ten thousand talents was brought to him.​

Matt 18:25 Because he was not able to repay it, the lord ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, children, and whatever he possessed, and repayment to be made.
Matt 18:26 Then the slave threw himself to the ground before him, saying, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you everything.’

Matt 18:27 The lord had compassion on that slave and released him, and forgave him the debt.​

Matt 18:28 After he went out, that same slave found one of his fellow slaves who owed him one hundred silver coins. So he grabbed him by the throat and started to choke him, saying, ‘Pay back what you owe me!’
Matt 18:29 Then his fellow slave threw himself down and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will repay you.’

Matt 18:30 But he refused. Instead, he went out and threw him in prison until he repaid the debt.​

Matt 18:31 When his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were very upset and went and told their lord everything that had taken place.

Matt 18:32 Then his lord called the first slave and said to him, ‘Evil slave! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me!​

Matt 18:33 Should you not have shown mercy to your fellow slave, just as I showed it to you?’
Matt 18:34 And in anger his lord turned him over to the prison guards to torture him until he repaid all he owed.
Matt 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to you, if each of you does not forgive your brother from your heart."

 

[ricker]

I like your analogy but to me we are not out of the hole til Jesus comes in the clouds. The ropes that are put down for anyone to grasp onto symbolize the free gift of salvation. We grasp on to the promise and slowly climb higher and higher to the mark of getting out of the hole through faith, grace and obedience. God is telling us to climb once we have taken ahold of the rope, not to just hang around at the bottom of the hole lest we let it go, feeling no need of our the rope. On the bottom of the hole we have our own self reliance in standing but once we are in the air we have nothing but God for strength in holding on. As long as we are holding on wherever we are on that rope when Jesus calls us forth, we will all be pulled up out of the hole and will be saved.

Alot of people will walk up to and touch the ropes and maybe even grab onto them but will never endevour to climb. When the rope gets hoisted out of the hole on that last day they have a loose grip onto it and it will slip away whereas the people that have been climbing already have their grip firmly onto the promise and won't get caught unawares.

Sister White used the same kind of analogy of the golden strand that we are to grasp onto as we climb the precarious, steep and ever narrowing path to heaven. We are not able to be stationary as the illumination that lights our way is ever moving upward and we have to keep our focus on Jesus leading the way and stay in the light.

The rope. and the strand, metaphor reminds me of the book "Pilgrim's Progress", which I read again not long ago. Good book if you haven't yet read it, and a good re-read if you read it as a student long ago as I did.

 

[Princessdi]

Ok, ok, K4C, I am with you on that. Nice addition.

ECR, think of sancitfication as climbing out of that hole into "The Light". With the end result being "The Light" of His Coming. Ther is a relationship betweeen the one who needs rescuing and the one effecting the rescue, right?

Great post but I would go one step further.

Read and listen very carefully.

1 John 5:10-11 who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.

The testimony is that God has given us His Son and in His Son is eternal life. We don't have eternal life because we have not believed the testimony that God has given us eternal life. In this we make Him a liar.

Now let me interpret this in light of your post.

The whole world was in a hole and God saved us all without us needing to grab the rope. The problem is, we jump back into the hole by not believing the testimony that God has already given us eternal life.

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Now go preach the good news and sin no more.