How to get through to Conservatives?

[Truthfrees]

You can't ...

YOUR POST IS a perfect description of a hater, NOT A CONSERVATIVE.

I'm conservative, as are my friends and family.

None of the conservatives I know behave like this.

MY EXPERIENCE
I witnessed a person from a group I used to attend BEHAVE IN THE MANNER YOU DESCRIBE IN YOUR POST.

She would rile people up by making blatantly false accusations about them to their face.

The "target" would get really upset and almost start screaming and shouting, trying to defend themselves, and this passive aggressive attacker would keep it up.

I stepped in one time and the "target" ran off crying.

I asked the attacker why she does this kind of thing to people.

She said she loves to push people's buttons and get a reaction out of them.

I wonder if haters have a similar agenda.

Perhaps they love to upset people with their unveiled hateful statements.

 

[Truthfrees]

@sarvesh

I'm not sure what you thought I said in my post but I will edit to make it more clear, on the chance that it was my choice of words that gave you a wrong impression.

I ask that you edit your post, because as is you are flaming.

Flaming is when you discuss me rather than the topic.

 

[Always in His Presence]

What is the solution, just force gays to be lonely and miserable for the rest of their life due to some archaic legalistic rules that make no logical sense? It makes no sense to me and makes it hard for me not to hold resentment towards them and Christianity as a whole. Just seems like a hopeless situation.

The solution is the same regardless of the sin. Help them deepen their relationship with Jesus Christ - the only one who can set them free. It's not about shouting at people, nor is it pointing out their sin, it is about helping them get set free.

And yes, a person can be delivered from any sin, even ones of the flesh.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

In my experience, patience and behaving in a Christlike way is the best way to win people over. You may also advocate for your own views, but never do so in a contemptuous or unkind manner.

Btw, I think that's also good advice for conservatives hoping to win liberals over.

 

[Butterfly99]

I'm still trying to understand what makes a Christian a Conservative. I did start a thread about this & got some good posts. I always thought it was just something political not religious.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I'm still trying to understand what makes a Christian a Conservative. I did start a thread about this & got some good posts. I always thought it was just something political not religious.

It has everything to do with their alleged "pro-life" stance...as long as it's a fetus, it must be protected...however, the minute the umbilical cord is cut, it is not worthy of even the most basic of protections...it's a contradiction in terms that I don't understand.

 

[Truthfrees]

It has everything to do with their alleged "pro-life" stance...as long as it's a fetus, it must be protected...however, the minute the umbilical cord is cut, it is not worthy of even the most basic of protections...it's a contradiction in terms that I don't understand.

Not at all.

As a conservative, it's a baby from conception and remains a baby, therefore should be protected as any human being should be protected, especially the weak and helpless.

God asks us to look after the widow, orphan, sick, helpless, etc.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Not at all.

As a conservative, it's a baby from conception and remains a baby, therefore should be protected as any human being should be protected, especially the weak and helpless.

God asks us to look after the widow, orphan, sick, helpless, etc.

Then why do conservatives support cutting social safety nets, oppose universal health care and kiss up to the 1%?

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I don't share Truthfree's view of life beginning at conception, so I see some room for compromise on the abortion issue.

But that's an entirely separate matter from the question of what should government do about safety nets, health care and income inequality. Conservatives and progressives are operating from entirely different mental models of how the world works, and don't see government and society anything like the same way. "What policies produce a strong economy and a happy, healthy society?" is a complex question, involving how one thinks economies and societies work.

See "A Conflict of Visions", by Thomas Sowell, for an enlightening analysis of conservative vs. progressive worldviews.

That, btw, is an entirely different subject from theological liberalism and conservatism. One can be an entirely orthodox Christian and still vote for Bernie Sanders, or for (in my case) Gary Johnson. Likewise, one can be a Unitarian Universalist and still vote for Ted Cruz. People are complicated like that.

 

[Truthfrees]

Then why do conservatives support cutting social safety nets, oppose universal health care and kiss up to the 1%?

I was speaking as a conservative Christian on our Biblical theology.

I'm not a Conservative Politician, so have nothing to say about Conservative Politics.

But please remember that not all Political Conservatives are Christians.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Ok...the "life at conception" argument. Why is there such an outrage over abortion but no outrage over discarding embryos discarded after IVF? Shouldn't the "pro-lifers" seek to ban that too...IF they believe life begins when the sperm meets the egg? Or is it different because those embryos are created on purpose in a laboratory rather than some wanton woman having unprotected sex?

 

[Wgw]

Then why do conservatives support cutting social safety nets, oppose universal health care and kiss up to the 1%?

The UK Conservatives have ring-fenced NHS funding, something not guaranteed by other parties whomproposed cuts. That said I think "universal health care" is a dubious concept when it entails the state paying for the healthcare of people who can afford it. It does make sense however to pursue policies that appeal to those who pay the most taxes, in the same way that airlines provide lounges, free flights and priority boarding for their best customers.

Ok...the "life at conception" argument. Why is there such an outrage over abortion but no outrage over discarding embryos discarded after IVF? Shouldn't the "pro-lifers" seek to ban that too...IF they believe life begins when the sperm meets the egg? Or is it different because those embryos are created on purpose in a laboratory rather than some wanton woman having unprotected sex?

Several Orthodox voices have expressed concern over aspects of IVF. Certainly a respect for the personhood that begins at conception requires us to reject entirely any intentional destruction of embryos.

The theological arguments against abortion are not party political and relate primarily to the idea of personhood; the fact that conservative parties have tended to take a pro-life stance is desirable and beneficial but we should not conflate political conservativism with the theology of the person. I would hope liberal Christians would seek to persuade their respective political parties of the benefits of a radically pro-life agenda, with a threefold ban on abortion, euthanasia and capital punishment. Such an approach is the only way to protect the life and dignity of vulnerable people.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Regarding abortion...while I don't think I would ever have one (have had my share of pregnancy related tragedies), I do not think I have the right to determine someone else's choice. Euthanasia...after watching my mother's horrific death, I fail to understand the opposition to euthanasia. Try watching someone incoherently shriek in pain as their limbs contract and spasm, knowing that they are dying from the inside out (massive stroke, sepsis, bedsores and kidney failure), then come tell me your opposition to ending someone's suffering...my God...we treat our pets better than that. I do agree about the death penalty though.

 

[Truthfrees]

Ok...the "life at conception" argument. Why is there such an outrage over abortion but no outrage over discarding embryos discarded after IVF? Shouldn't the "pro-lifers" seek to ban that too...IF they believe life begins when the sperm meets the egg? Or is it different because those embryos are created on purpose in a laboratory rather than some wanton woman having unprotected sex?

Conservative Christians would be opposed to all of it.

A living soul has value, especially an innocent helpless life like a baby.

By the time a baby is aborted, even at the earliest possible chance, the baby has developed far beyond looking like a fertilized egg.

With IVF, the fertilized eggs are implanted and given a chance to attach and live. The implants that don't attach, don't get a chance to live, but that's still different than being purposely aborted.

If fertilized eggs are being discarded before they get a chance to be implanted, they don't get a chance to live either.

This is why conservative Christians would oppose it all, but especially be united against abortion, because for sure the baby is a living soul, far more than a fertilized egg.

 

[Truthfrees]

Regarding abortion...while I don't think I would ever have one (have had my share of pregnancy related tragedies), I do not think I have the right to determine someone else's choice. Euthanasia...after watching my mother's horrific death, I fail to understand the opposition to euthanasia. Try watching someone incoherently shriek in pain as their limbs contract and spasm, knowing that they are dying from the inside out (massive stroke, sepsis, bedsores and kidney failure), then come tell me your opposition to ending someone's suffering...my God...we treat our pets better than that. I do agree about the death penalty though.

I understand your ideology. It has some merit.

Conservative Christians would do everything to eliminate pain and suffering short of helping someone kill themselves.

Many conservative Christians pray for and receive miracles in serious situations.

But for sure abortion could have been prevented by people using their right to choose contraception, rather than choosing to kill an innocent baby.

Likewise, responsible people neuter their pets if they don't want puppies or kittens.

They're generally opposed to killing the newborn animals, so why not the same respect for newborn or unborn human babies?

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Banning abortion is NOT going to stop women from seeking abortions. I would rather have someone be able to make that choice, and in a clean, safe environment rather than going back to the bad pre-1973 days.

The outrage against these sorts of things and opposition to contraception (and insurance coverage of contraception) is nothing more than a desire to control women. IF women cannot get contraception covered by insurance then men should not be able to use insurance coverage for medications like Viagra and Cialis. It's a double standard that is ridiculous.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Do you guys believe it's possible to get through to conservatives that the way they act is often harmful and not conducive to acting like Christ? Every discussion that comes up about something they disagree with, especially LGBT people, turns into a trash show acting like those people are the biggest demons in the world. Do conservatives really not understand how much harm and suffering they cause LGBT people to constantly be viewed/treated like that?

What is the solution, just force gays to be lonely and miserable for the rest of their life due to some archaic legalistic rules that make no logical sense? It makes no sense to me and makes it hard for me not to hold resentment towards them and Christianity as a whole. Just seems like a hopeless situation.

I'm deeply sorry that you, and any others have come to believe in the lie that the Christian perspective on homosexuality is the way you describe it here. ALL human beings are called to chastity, or abstinence from sexual activity, except in this one circumstance, (heterosexual, two person marriage). This includes both hetero and homo sexual persons, or any other deviation. This in no way, shape for form removes one ounce of the responsibility, and respect for the human person that is also required by our creator, and so discrimination, bullying, humiliating, or treating someone with anything but genuine love and respect for ANY reason is also deeply disordered, and immoral. It would also be a disservice to those we love, to lie to them, if asked, about morality. We all fall short. We are all sinners. But the difference seems to be repentance and acknowledgement of sin, rather than doing all in our power to convince ourselves that repentance and penance is wrong, and whatever "feels good" is right.

We all must remove the log from our own eye, in order to see clearly the speck in our brothers eye. I guess, in short, the Christian can not help what is right and wrong. It is what it is. All we can do is keep check on how we interact with others. Always speaking the truth, but always making sure that the truth is given in love. Real love. Agape (selfless and charitable) love. A good Christian wouldn't be "calling a person out" on their iniquities. They would simply be honest and kind when these things are called into discussion. If our motive as Christians is anything other than providing assistance to each other to get through this life and getting each other into Heaven, then our motives may need to be examined. But the truth of right and wrong is innate and perfect.

Many a Christian, (including myself in earlier portions of my life), has allowed the American, (and the European) political concepts of liberal and conservative to become all tangled and intermeshed with each other, and for that reason you are framing your question at conservatives as if they have no compassion. I'm sure many of them do. Perhaps most. They may have some difficulties seeing through the cultures political traps, but this isn't a problem confined to political conservatives in the least. Many, and perhaps most liberal Christians are caught in the same political tragedy of falling for the platforms of their political idealogues as well. The democratic and republican political parties and their associated agendas create nothing but discord, and they should be abandoned as soon as a person is able to see the extent of their menace on the societal psyche.

“The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected." G.K. Chesterton

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge natural to party dissention, which in different ages & countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders & miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security & repose in the absolute power of an Individual: and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty." — George Washington, September 19, 1796

 

[RedPonyDriver]

My faith informs my political beliefs...I do not walk in lock-step with either party...however, I have more in common with the liberals than the conservatives.

 

[Truthfrees]

Banning abortion is NOT going to stop women from seeking abortions. I would rather have someone be able to make that choice, and in a clean, safe environment rather than going back to the bad pre-1973 days.

The outrage against these sorts of things and opposition to contraception (and insurance coverage of contraception) is nothing more than a desire to control women. IF women cannot get contraception covered by insurance then men should not be able to use insurance coverage for medications like Viagra and Cialis. It's a double standard that is ridiculous.

But there are choices.

Choosing to not create a baby is an excellent choice offered to everyone, men and women.

Contraceptives are easily available in so many forms. There's sure to be one that suits everyone.

Why would anyone need to choose to kill an innocent baby?

Even pet owners take contraceptive action rather than kill puppies and kittens.

Why can't we think and make choices within a humane peaceful paradigm?

Why does abortion need to be a catch all choice for family planning?

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Abortion is not a "catch-all" choice. You DO know there are many reasons for terminating a pregnancy other than "oops", right? The pro-lifers think that when someone chooses to have an abortion they have this cavalier attitude about it like it's no big deal. They could not be more wrong. But...the rabid pro-lifers will never, ever understand that, and they think that by banning abortion procedures, magically there won't be any more abortions. It just doesn't work that way.