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Huh?
This thread is about Christian conservatives and communicating with them.
We are to be in the world, not of the world. If God's truth is archaic and unacceptable to you and to them, then so be it. Of course this doesn't mean that we should mistreat LGBT people, but we should not condone sin or seek to excuse it.
Do you guys believe it's possible to get through to conservatives that the way they act is often harmful and not conducive to acting like Christ?
Exactly. Until everyone is willing to listen and engage in meaningful dialogue, change will not happen. Personally, I came from a conservative house and was very conservative growing up. In fact, so conservative that I went to my high school counselor to ask to be moved into a different speech class because I did not want to have a gay teacher. He obviously got wind of it, and sat me down in private to discuss it. He said that he understood where I had come from, and said that he is not going to force me to stay or leave, but that I couldn't stay in my Christian bubble forever. He was very respectful of me and my opinions, and I ultimately decided to stay. It was the seed the planted my change of heart.
One of the reasons this teacher touched my heart and expanded my compassion so much was because he's old enough to be my grandfather, and he has gone through experiences kids my age haven't. He was raised in the southern part of Alabama in a Southern Baptist home where he was indoctrinated with the belief that homosexuality was an abomination, and believed from a young age through most of his life that he was defective. He knew he was gay very early on. His family knew, too. He said his father used to regularly beat him with a belt and pick switches from trees and strike him until he bled trying to get him to stop being effeminate and to be "normal"
He desperately wanted to be like the other boys who liked girls, too. He prayed fervently every night for years to be changed. He felt afflicted. He dated girls in high school even though he wasn't attracted to them at all despite trying to be. He got married at age 19, mainly to please his family and didn't divorce until his mid-50s. He said he was always faithful, but that he felt a tremendous guilt the entire marriage because she loved him and he knew that she deserved better than to be with a husband who loved her sincerely but could not love her romantically. They had children together and built a typical life. He worked for his uncle's company as a roofer and in an assortment of jobs. He continued to pray that entire time, pleading with God to make him not be gay, and he quietly tried traditional therapy, church-based therapy, and "conversion therapy." He reached out to various charlatans for years that promised to "fix" him. He was acutely lonely. It was his wife who knew his truth and finally encouraged divorce. Their kids were grown and she wanted an authentic and full marriage. He wanted to actually live and not just exist. He finally went back to college, got a degree, then got a Masters, and moved to LA in his 60s. That is when he finally started being himself, and became openly gay.
He's the one who did more than just pat me on the head and tell me what a great artist I was for a kid, and instead actually
taught me how to make myself better. He helped me to put my portfolio together for my art supplement when I was applying to college this time last year. He insisted that I apply for an arts scholarship when I was being hyper-critical and defeatist, and he's the one who got me involved in art festivals where I actually sell my paintings and make a salary from my passion. He is also just the one who listens to me and gets me. I love him. I feel defensive of him. I feel angry at how Christians have treated him throughout his life. I feel grateful that he goes to a church now that is loving and grace-filled and where he can be himself and belong. He got married earlier this year (to a wonderful man he met at church), and I got to sing in his wedding. It was one of the loveliest honors of my life.
Do you guys believe it's possible to get through to conservatives that the way they act is often harmful and not conducive to acting like Christ? Every discussion that comes up about something they disagree with, especially LGBT people, turns into a trash show acting like those people are the biggest demons in the world. Do conservatives really not understand how much harm and suffering they cause LGBT people to constantly be viewed/treated like that?
What is the solution, just force gays to be lonely and miserable for the rest of their life due to some archaic legalistic rules that make no logical sense? It makes no sense to me and makes it hard for me not to hold resentment towards them and Christianity as a whole. Just seems like a hopeless situation.
I am waiting to hear what really happened. The Pope and the Vatican may have been blind sided with this one, not being aware of the whole situation. Similar to their concerns about all the "anti-Catholic" people the Prez invited to the White House. Getting a photo op with a politician or other famous person is not that difficult, and there have been many "oops" later on. I also wonder what is meant by "meeting" and what the exact situation was.So just heard the news story that Kim Davis got a private meeting with the Pope in DC while she was at the FRC Values Summit meeting. That really makes me lose some respect for the Pope. He shouldn't be getting involved with some religious extremist who sees wealth, fame, discrimination, lying, and forcing your beliefs on others to be Christian virtues.
He met with Obama, didn't he?So just heard the news story that Kim Davis got a private meeting with the Pope in DC while she was at the FRC Values Summit meeting. That really makes me lose some respect for the Pope. He shouldn't be getting involved with some religious extremist who sees wealth, fame, discrimination, lying, and forcing your beliefs on others to be Christian virtues.
Red herring. He didn't meet with Obama to congratulate him on his religious convictions. It would be odd for the Pope to not meet with the leader of the country he was visiting. On the other hand, calling for a private meeting to applaud a woman who most Christians disagree with and who goes against everything Jesus stood for is very uncharacteristic of this Pope.He met with Obama, didn't he?
Always a colorful reply. I like "Strawman," too. The point is that he met with other people who fit basically the same description, so the attempt to make out that his meeting with Kim Davis was somehow shocking or that he was too out of touch with the news everyone else is familiar with to know who she was is kinda silly, don't you know?Red herring.
Not really. Had she been at a public rally and he happened to go up to her would be one thing. A secret meeting to applaud a woman like her is just in bad taste.Always a colorful reply. I like "Strawman," too. The point is that he met with other people who fit basically the same description, so the attempt to make out that his meeting with Kim Davis was somehow shocking or that he was too out of touch with the news everyone else is familiar with to know who she was is kinda silly, don't you know?
So just heard the news story that Kim Davis got a private meeting with the Pope in DC while she was at the FRC Values Summit meeting. That really makes me lose some respect for the Pope. He shouldn't be getting involved with some religious extremist who sees wealth, fame, discrimination, lying, and forcing your beliefs on others to be Christian virtues.
VATICAN CITY — Ever since it became public that Pope Francis met in Washington with Kim Davis, the Kentucky county clerk who refused to issue marriage licenses for same-sex couples, the questions have been swirling: Why did he meet with her, and was it meant as a political statement?
As it turns out, the Vatican said on Friday, the pope did not mean to endorse Ms. Davis’s views. It also said he gave her no more than a typical brief greeting, despite what her lawyer described.
Instead, the Vatican said that Francis gave only one “real audience”: to someone later identified as one of his former students, Yayo Grassi, a gay man in Washington who says he brought his partner of 19 years to the Vatican’s embassy in Washington for a reunion. They even shot video
Do you guys believe it's possible to get through to conservatives that the way they act is often harmful and not conducive to acting like Christ? ... Just seems like a hopeless situation.
Correct. It's their way, or you're defying God purposely. As the Catholics said here, even secular same-sex marriage is not a legitimate marriage and thus should not be allowed.It seems that for conservatives...there is no middle ground, no "live and let live". For most of us who are liberals...preservation of civil rights is paramount.
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