How to Forgive....

[Angeloffire]

The following subject is to open our minds and heal our hearts:


Forgiveness is huge. If you cannot forgive, the bible says you cannot be forgiven.

But you cannot make a conscious decision to just forgive, no more than you can to just forget.

In truth we are all a sum of our past experiences. If you cannot get passed the past, how do you move on?

Clearly we see that we have to forgive, but how?

What is the key to forgiveness?

 

[Glenda]

Love.. Loving like Christ loves..

 

[1usul1]

I think Forgiveness is a process for big hurts, i think you have to walk toward it initially.

 

[WileyCoyote]

What is the key to forgiveness?

I'm still trying to figure it out.

 

[Angeloffire]

Also, to further your thinking:

Why does a subject or a wrong done to us circle like a freaken merry-go-round? You think and you think and you think, trying to figure it all out....why someone did that, what I should have done, and so on and son on.....and it doesn't go away!

You strike the person who hurts you.....it doesn't go away!

The more you think about what hurts you, the bigger it gets!

So where does forgiveness lie? Why is it so hard to find?

 

[pinetree]

This is a good subject,because I think forgiveness,is most misunderstood.

Often,reflex feelings develope after being hurt..

Evan a dog,if abused long enough,will growl,or cetainly react,when he sees the abuser..

Emotions take time to heal,and resolve.

Often,if certain people have hurt others enough..

When we see the abusive ones,especially,if they are not sorry,it resonates bad memories,that are often confused with unforgiveness.

 

[pinetree]

I think Forgiveness is a process for big hurts, i think you have to walk toward it initially.

good words.

 

[1usul1]

good words.

Thank you kind Sir.
did you know the greatest ever Rugby player Collin Meads was nick named Pinetree??
He was a mountain of Man witha big heart, you are walking in good company with your namesake.

 

[Seeking Him]

I think when we forgive, there can still be anger . It sometimes seems that the anger takes a while to go away. Christians, I think can be afraid to feel anger, because they think it is sin. But it is not always. It's also a human emotion that God gave us. So we might have forgiven, but have to work through the anger . I know this is true for me. For years I didn't feel anger. As I've learned to feel it more, the anger leaves forgiveness seems more clear.

In the Psalms people were going through hard times and there was anger there, but as you read you see God meeting them and helping to resolve theie problems.

 

[Angeloffire]

I know what you mean. In one instance in my life I spoke the words, "I forgive them in Jesus name" every time the hurt arose and it took two years! But the day came when the pain and hurt lifted from my shoulders. It was as if a concrete block was taken off of me!

Unforgiveness.......perhaps if we look at the flip side of the coin we also might find some clues there as to how forgiveness works.

I'll have to think on that one tonight...

 

[pinetree]

Thank you kind Sir.
did you know the greatest ever Rugby player Collin Meads was nick named Pinetree??
He was a mountain of Man witha big heart, you are walking in good company with your namesake.

thanks!
I did not know that..
Nice to meet ya!

 

[Tsadde]

I've spent a lot of time thinking, praying, and working through this. Years really.

I thought I HAD forgiven, but the feelings just kept coming back. I read in the Lord's prayer "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors." and "Don't let the sun go down upon your wrath." I was afraid I was not forgiven, not saved, when I felt angry. Some people even told me if I didn't forgive right there on the spot I could become demon possessed. So I said, "I forgive. I forgive." but it kept coming back.

Now I'm not talking about someone bumping into me with a shopping cart. I am talking about betrayal of the criminal variety. Big stuff.

One of the problems with instant forgiveness is that it does not always take into account the depth and breadth of the injury. I thought I had forgiven, but I had only forgiven these people for scratching me when really they took a knife to my back. I was in the habit of saying "It's OK. It was partially my fault too. I must have done something to bring it on." It wasn't until years later that I could do an accounting of the damage done.

The word "debt" was crucial to me to understand what forgiveness really is. Jesus told a parable about a man who was forgiven his debts who went out and tried to force his own debtor to pay up. The outcome was not good.

I actually made up an invoice for the people I had to forgive. I listed what they took and what they owed me that they didn't supply. I included the sequelae of trying to get through life with crippling injuries. It was a big list. When I looked at it I knew I couldn't afford to absorb this kind of loss. It was only when I came to the point of realizing that Jesus had already forgiven my debts and that He promised to meet all my needs that I could let go. And to me that's what forgiveness is -letting go of a debt, never expecting or demanding the ones I needed to forgive to ever give me anything toward their debt.

I took the invoices and wrote across them "tetalestai", Jesus' last words on the cross, sometimes translated "It is finished." It was a business term written across bills and legal contracts when they were paid or fulfilled. Then I destroyed them.

Finally I was free of the bond that kept me tied to the very people I was trying to escape from.

Thank you Jesus

 

[map4]

Have any of you ever read "God Calling"? It is a book by 'Two Listners' who say Christ spoke messages to them.

This is an excerpt from the book about forgiveness. Just wanted to add it as 'food for thought'.

Kill Self Now
Self dethroned-that is the lesson, but in its place put Love for Me, knowledge of Me.
Self, not only dethroned, but dead. A dead self is not an imprisoned self. An imprisoned self is more potent to harm. In all training-(Mine of you, and in yours of others)-let self die.
But for each blow to the life of self you must at the same time embrace and hold fast the new Life, Life with Me.
It is not a dead self that men have to fear, but a thwarted, captive imprisoned self. That self is infinitely more self-centered than the self allowed full play. But to you, My children, I teach a higher science-law than even freedom of the self. I teach death to self. No repressions, just death. Petty self life exchanged for Divine Life.
And now I can make more clear to you what I would say about forgiveness of injuries. It is one of My commands that as you seek My forgiveness, so you must forgive.
But what you do not see is that you, the self in you, can never forgive injuries. The very thought of them means self in the foreground, then the injury, instead of appearing less, appears greater.
No, My children, as all true Love is of God, and is God, so all true forgiveness is of God and is God. The self cannot forgive. Kill self.
Cease trying to forgive those who fretted or wronged you. It is a mistake to think about it. Aim at killing self now-in your daily life, and then, and not until then, you will find there is nothing that even remembers injury, because the only one injured, the self, is dead.
As long as it recurs to your mind you deceive yourself if you think it forgiven. Forgiving injuries can be one way of feeding a self-life.
Many deceive themselves in this.
__________________________________________________
I'm not saying I agree that this actually came from Jesus. But this thread made me think of this passage in the book.
What I find intriguing is the part about true forgiveness, like true love, coming from God and that our 'self' can't truly forgive. And that if we are truly 'dead to self', we won't even remember the injuries.

Something to think about....

 

[1usul1]

thanks!
I did not know that..
Nice to meet ya!

Nice to meet you also PT. Can I call you PT?

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Often, reflex feelings develop after being hurt..

Evan a dog,if abused long enough, will growl,or cetainly react,when he sees the abuser..

Emotions take time to heal,and resolve.

Often,if certain people have hurt others enough..

Not only that but also if people have been hurt in the same PLACE too many times by the same TYPE of person or TYPE of people, then after awhile these TYPES all start to blur together.

[personal baggage spoiler]

Moriah has quite literally felt like it has done battle for YEARS with about 2 or 3 certain types of "spirit" that it would swear just jump from body to body putting on people like sockpuppets or gloves just so they can have yet another go at Moriah AGAIN. See, Moriah will give any person a chance, but once they turn that corner into abuser territory and start acting like an abuser, it shuts the door. Even if it has civil conversation with them later, once that door GETS shut it STAYS shut and that one will never get another chance to get close enough to hurt it that way again. Period. And these spirits KNOW that so they just jump to another body and try again. As crazy as that might sound, if you stood on THIS end, the RECEIVING end of these ludicrous repetitive lies and spin jobs and smear campaigns it has had to endure all its life you would think the same thing -- from body to body the SAME tone SAME demeanor SAME attempted molestations and SAME FILTHY LIES, they ALL LOOK ALIKE so it can TELL the presence of these spirits. No matter WHOM they operate through.

Of course in normal human experience something similar can be caused by human beings saying or doing something TRIGGERING -- something what triggers a bad memory stored from a previous encounter with someone else -- causing the weight of that bad memory to lay on top of the current situation and make it feel that much more heavy and oppressive and hurtful. So yeah to some degree each new human "bringing it" with that crap will probably feel the weight of the 17,342 others that went before them pressing down ON them as if THEY bes responsible for all that too. Because to daimonizomai it bes all the same filthy lies and misery-making deceits it has been abused with before and so it all belongs in the same pot so to speak. At that point it don't care, it can't care, it just knows OH GOD PLEASE NOT ANOTHER ONE OF **THOSE**@!!!!! and wondering how could God despise it so much that He keeps doing this horrible mean trick to it.

When we see the abusive ones, especially,if they are not sorry, it resonates bad memories, that are often confused with unforgiveness.

TRUTH.
And it does NOT help to have people then sit around chastising you for being "unforgiving".
If people want to be forgiven they need to own up, fess up, make amends, make apologies, and then, most important of all ... NOT REPEAT THE OFFENSE AGAIN. Cuz if they do it just looks like they tricksors on purpose to lure you into trusting so they can hurt you EVEN WORSE.

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

For some of us, forgiveness comes TOO easily because by nature we have NO boundaries and therefore NO way to protect ourselves against getting abused, betrayed, and/or screwd over again. So we has to constantly be trying to build and reinforce in ourselves the idea NOT to let them tricksor us, NOT to let them lure us away with sweet talk about making nicey-nice, NOT to take the candy because we know what happens when you take the candy .....

They keeps trying to fix this problem but it keeps coming back. DONT trust them humans DONT trust them humans DONT trust them humans and don't even let them get ANYWHERE with you EVER. STOP being so sensitive to their lies just let them think whatever they want -- the further from the truth, the further from YOU MORIAH and therefore the SAFER you will be in the end. Don't try to corrrect their lies just let them have those lies they love. Be defiant instead. When them filthy humans lies about you just tell them YEAH THAT BES RIGHT, WHATEVER YOU SAY, OF COURSE and shut the door and lock it behind you.

 

[IowaPastor]

Forgiveness...

I, like many others know we're commanded to forgive and commanded to love. Easier said than done at times!

Something that I first learned in the fall of 2004 has helped me. It's to be honest with God, saying, "God, I just cannot forgive (Name) right now. Please forgive him/her through me." Eventually, I should be able to forgive who I need to forgive. It may take literally years and years!!

Additionally, I think it helps to pray for the person you need to forgive. It's something that I "know" on one level but still seem to struggle with at times.

By the way, we may be commanded to forgive and to love but I haven't seen in the Bible where we ever have to be around/have a relationship with the person we've forgiven again.

For example, I have an aunt that I've recently severed ties with because of her behavior towards others and towards me. (Her behavior towards me is bordering on abusive, if not out right abusive...it's certianly controlling.) That said, I've been trying to pray for her...it doesn't happen every day, like it should.

In my heart of hearts, I know that she needs help (with her psychological/emotional issues) that I'm no where near qualified to help her with.

I have no idea if I've added anything of substance or not...

Blessings,

 

[Angeloffire]

Tsaddle,

Your testimony is very inspiring. I see several key things in it. One of the main keys to letting go of anger is to find what you need in Him.

Hurts that stem from our childhood and those that come from being violated without cause are the hardest to overcome.

It is easier to let go of the wrongs of someone else when your own hands are visibly stained to you.

I've found in most cases where a person can also see their shortcomings they are quicker to realise not expect others to 'tow the line'.


Map4

I haven't read that book. But the basic principle is correct. As self in you is wrong thinking and backed by the spirits who think like this, you cannot redeem it.

You have to die to self, but you cannot until you awaken to God first. The reason why is that you operate from either the spirit of Truth or the spirit of Error. And one cancels out the other.


One thing that really blessed me to realise, is that only God is perfect. If someone sins against me and is cruel how is that really a crime when I've done the same thing to someone else.

Do I really want to line up everyone I know before God and stand with them and say, "Hey God, pick the good one?"

I don't think I'd win that competition!

Another thing that helps is to realise that everytime someone wrongs you it is an 'opportunity' to overlook their error. EVery time you overlook it and are patient and kind, God will overlook your own errors as He promised.

How else are we to be forgiven for our wrongs if we never have the opportunity to forgive someone else?

Moriah,

We are all people full of ways that are not exactly correct....every one makes mistakes, acts from wrong thoughts, and stumbles.

As humans we fall down, we cry, our hearts get broken and we have the uncanny misfortune that our hindsight is clearer then our foresight.

Anger is the basis of unforgiveness. It comes from not getting what we want in life, out of others, etc.

LIke my little boy who bangs his head on the door when he can't go outside in the pouring rain, not understanding why. People tend to get angry when we need something and they feel they've been denied it or abused in any way.

People don't have what we need. They don't have complete understanding (love). They have partial understanding.

I realised one day that expecting people to give me what I needed was the equivelant of laying on the highway and then being angry for getting run over.

If you want to never be hurt again, you have to not expect from people that which they do not have. There are no perfect people in the world. There isn't anyone who can give you complete joy and peace and understanding but God the Father and when you find Him in you, you will have peace and others can trample you all day long and you'll just smile.

That is why God sent His son to die for us all, cause we are all abunch of messed up souls.

I was thinking the other day. If someone crucifed me for the world, beat me, drain out all my blood, stuck thorns in my head, and mocked me like they did Jesus it would not help even one soul.

I deserve death. I can't bear the sins of the world or even my own! How shall I give me to the world....no....I will give Him/Truth to save the world and I will die to self to that critter in me that wants to be god.

Blessings,

Angel of Fire

 

[Angeloffire]

Forgiveness...

I, like many others know we're commanded to forgive and commanded to love. Easier said than done at times!

The reason why it is hard to forgive is because we haven't received an understanding from God on that particular situation.

I'll give you an example:

Let's say that your parents treat you badly. They treat another sibling as gold and you just never measure up. They have rarely anything good to say about you and they lift up the other child on a throne in your eyes for you to aspire to.

Odviously this child will struggle their whole life for the approval of their parents.

If you just say," I forgive them" it is only lips servcie, your heart is wounded. How can this person be free?

Here comes Truth to the rescue:

Those persons in your life are a product of their own lost parents. They mimick and are actually not well people and are hurting to even do this to you.

EVen if they gave you 'complete' approval, what would it mean? Can they set your name in the heavens, redeem your soul from the grave, heal your body and raise it to eternity?

Can you cast out demons in their name? Do they contain all wisdom and power?

Is it possible, that should you turn your expectations in another direction and seek what you need from the Father that the sins of others would fall into the correct light?

Perhaps humanity is all adrift, wicked, and lost and the only Light in any of us belongs to Him and Him alone.

Perhaps the only good in me and you is Him? If that be true, the more wicked a person, the less of Him is in them.

Now I will look for Him only. I will take no credit for the good I do and have received redemption for the bad in me as long as I live unto the Good and seek Truth all the days of my life, my sin is covered.

Those who oppress me are His problem, only He fixes things, I just obey.

See how the Truth frees a soul?

 

[map4]

Forgiveness...

I, like many others know we're commanded to forgive and commanded to love. Easier said than done at times!

Something that I first learned in the fall of 2004 has helped me. It's to be honest with God, saying, "God, I just cannot forgive (Name) right now. Please forgive him/her through me." Eventually, I should be able to forgive who I need to forgive. It may take literally years and years!!

Additionally, I think it helps to pray for the person you need to forgive. It's something that I "know" on one level but still seem to struggle with at times.

By the way, we may be commanded to forgive and to love but I haven't seen in the Bible where we ever have to be around/have a relationship with the person we've forgiven again.

For example, I have an aunt that I've recently severed ties with because of her behavior towards others and towards me. (Her behavior towards me is bordering on abusive, if not out right abusive...it's certianly controlling.) That said, I've been trying to pray for her...it doesn't happen every day, like it should.

In my heart of hearts, I know that she needs help (with her psychological/emotional issues) that I'm no where near qualified to help her with.

I have no idea if I've added anything of substance or not...

Blessings,

Oh, but you did add substance.

Sometimes, it is an act of faith to forgive...because we can't do it on our own. Our flesh is hurt and it's hard to get past the pain so we, by faith, forgive. Because we have to 'die' to ourselves and allow Him to live through us. And when that happens...forgiveness comes. Forgiveness for ourselves and others. As we can't truly love without His love being shed abroad in our hearts, we can't truly forgive until His forgiveness becomes part of us.


And I agree that sometimes it is best to stay away from certain people. Our old man so much wants to rise up and be known. Until we are able to be around something or someone without him rising up, then yes, it is better to stay away.