How to Find a Good Church, Questions you could ask.

[John Davidson]

Sure, it is.
Shows no reverence to God.
You know who has the best reverence for God. The Jews. A lot of them, won't even spell his name out, they spell it like this G_d. Because they reverence Him, they also want to make sure they don't use His name in vain.
I spell it out, because it's spelled out in the Bible. If it's used in the proper manner then it is in reverence and worship.
The sanctuary, Is a place of worship and respect. It's a place where we go to give Glory to God our savior. It's a place we can sit and meditate on His Word. It's a place where you can go and edify one another in prayer and fellowship.
No, it's not wrong to eat in the sanctuary, it's not a sin. It's just a sign of poor upbringing on the respect and reverence to God we all should have. He created us, He loved us enough to die for us while we were in sin. He took the wrath that we should be getting. He took the beating we should have got. There are men and women today who give their lives so that many others can have a sanctuary to sit in and give praise and worship to the God of Heaven and our savior.
If you want to disrespect Him, you go right ahead. Me and my house will serve our Lord with respect and reverence.

It's the place where God dwells amongst us.

Exodus 25:8-9
"Let them construct a sanctuary for Me, that I may dwell among them. "According to all that I am going to show you, as the pattern of the tabernacle and the pattern of all its furniture, just so you shall construct it.

It is the place the Lord built, not man.

Hebrews 8:2
a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

The bible calls it the most holy place.

1 Kings 8:6
Then the priests brought the ark of the covenant of the LORD to its place, into the inner sanctuary of the house, to the most holy place, under the wings of the cherubim.

We build our sanctuary, to worship God. Not potluck dinners.

First of all God does not live in the sanctuary as you have suggested. He no longer lives in temples built with human hands. The body of Christ is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Since there is no mandate given in scripture to build sanctuaries then you can't give a mandate not to eat there. God wants us to love one another. If we want to share a Potluck meal and fellowship in the sanctuary then it is a good thing. You are way off base.

 

[John Davidson]

Your right. You don't like the question...ignore it. Don't ask it. walk away from it.
obviously it bothers you, you can't stop talking about it.
Why? Is it because of what it represents? That's why the question is there, is the church looking to the cross and remembering what Christ did on it for them. It's not there to worship. It's a reminder.
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

To remind us to pick our cross and follow Him.

Mark 8:34 - And when he had called the people [unto him] with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Your not worthy, if you don't pick up your cross and follow HIm.

Matthew 10:38 - And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

We should be crucified with Christ. Having Christ take over and live in us, with us totally surrendering to Him.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It is the power of God. To the preaching of the cross.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

It's the tree that brought forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:17 - Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Are you bearing good fruit, have you picked up your cross and denied yourself to follow Him?

My point as always is that having a cross is not a requirement for a good church. Jesus said, "make disciples of all nations", he didn't say, "build church buildings and put crosses in them". You are making a legalistic requirement that is not scriptural.

 

[smithed64]

If that were the case then you would be going to hell. You sin every day all day long. Sin is the condition in which you live. No one is able to repent of all there sins.

Nope.
Those of us who are Born Again, are not under the law. Only those who are not born again are under the law.

Here's what Paul has to say about it.

The Problem of Sin in Us
13 Therefore, did what is good cause my death Absolutely not On the contrary, sin, in order to be recognized as sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that through the commandment, sin might become sinful beyond measure.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am made out of flesh,into sin’s power.
15 For I do not understand what I am doing,because I do not practice what I want to do,but I do what I hate.
16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me.
18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
20 Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.
21 So I discover this principle: When I want to do what is good, evil is with me. 22 For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God’s law.
23 But I see a different law in the parts of my body,waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this dying body
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

You see, we are Saved. Yet we have and do sin. But because we are of
Christ we are dead to sin, and to the law of sin. He rescues us.
Your wrong, when you repent of one sin, God forgives all sins. He doesn't pick and choice, only the ones you can remember and the ones that you don't...oh well, since you didn't repent or ask for forgiveness, he won't forgive you.
No, God doesn't do anything halfway. It's all the way, or no way.

 

[smithed64]

First of all God does not live in the sanctuary as you have suggested. He no longer lives in temples built with human hands. The body of Christ is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Since there is no mandate given in scripture to build sanctuaries then you can't give a mandate not to eat there. God wants us to love one another. If we want to share a Potluck meal and fellowship in the sanctuary then it is a good thing. You are way off base.

Didn't say He lives there. I said He dwells there with us.
Remember when two or three are gathered together He will be with us.
He's always around. He's everywhere all the time.

I'm not off base. I believe in the reverence of God.
In respect to Him, I don't eat in the sanctuary. That's what the kitchen and the fellowship hall is for.
AS I said, if you can do so without conviction. Then do so. I cannot.

 

[smithed64]

My point as always is that having a cross is not a requirement for a good church. Jesus said, "make disciples of all nations", he didn't say, "build church buildings and put crosses in them". You are making a legalistic requirement that is not scriptural.

Nope. That is not what is meant by the question.
Again, you have some deep issues about this. Don't know what they are. But willing to help and pray for you.
Your right He does say that, for us to make disciples of all nations. How do you do that if you don't understand what the cross means?
No he didn't say build churches and put crosses in them...never said that.
Look, you obviously don't understand. Instead of insults, maybe you might want to ask why? Or what? or How?

 

[John Davidson]

14. How much do you give to missions and the hungry?
Again, this reveals the heart of the church. While most churches give to missions, many never consider the poor.

Let's look at another one of your errors here.

It's not the responsibility of the church to take care of the poor.

In Acts it says that: "they continued in the apostles doctrine, in fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. The scriptures never mention it being the responsibility of the church to feed the poor. Sure if the church does this it is a good thing but Jesus said, "the poor you will always have with you". In the early church many shared their possessions and they had all things in common.

Mainly it is the responsibility of the individual disciple to feed the poor and perform missions and not the church organization.

 

[John Davidson]

Nope.
Those of us who are Born Again, are not under the law. Only those who are not born again are under the law.

This just shows that you have problems comprehending. We were talking about sin not the law. You are a sinner. Accept it. You can only make it to heaven through the merits of Christ. You will die a sinner and can only be saved by grace.

 

[John Davidson]

Nope. That is not what is meant by the question.
Again, you have some deep issues about this. Don't know what they are. But willing to help and pray for you.
Your right He does say that, for us to make disciples of all nations. How do you do that if you don't understand what the cross means?
No he didn't say build churches and put crosses in them...never said that.
Look, you obviously don't understand. Instead of insults, maybe you might want to ask why? Or what? or How?

No you clearly do not understand. Having a cross in a church is not a requirement for a good church. You don't need to have a physical cross (which is a relic) in order to understand what the cross means. You are a very confused individual.

 

[smithed64]

Let's look at another one of your errors here.

It's not the responsibility of the church to take care of the poor.

In Acts it says that: "they continued in the apostles doctrine, in fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. The scriptures never mention it being the responsibility of the church to feed the poor. Sure if the church does this it is a good thing but Jesus said, "the poor you will always have with you". In the early church many shared their possessions and they had all things in common.

Mainly it is the responsibility of the individual disciple to feed the poor and perform missions and not the church organization.

Let's see what the Bible has to say about it.

“But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:13-14)
Think about it. If God is willing to take care of His children every day, we should be willing to also take care of those who need provisions. Before Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, we were all in dire need of help. We were poor because we all stood in judgment of God’s wrath. Jesus’ death for us completely covered every single sin and took us out of God’s wrath. If Jesus can show that much love to a poor humanity, we can certainly show as much love as possible to the poor people that need help, whether it is financially, physically or emotionally.
The church is made up of the body of Christ. That is the people who attend it. There fore it would stand to reason that the church is also responsible to help those who are in need.

Acts 20:35
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Paul is speaking to a church.

Luke 3:11
And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

Christ is telling the Apostles, and others, the church.

Matthew 25:35-40

34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

Christ is talking to everyone here. That includes the church.
This is what he has to say to those who don't do what he says, to do.

Matthew 25:41-46

41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. If He says do it. You do it.

 

[smithed64]

This just shows that you have problems comprehending. We were talking about sin not the law. You are a sinner. Accept it. You can only make it to heaven through the merits of Christ. You will die a sinner and can only be saved by grace.

I'm a sinner saved by grace, through faith in Christ.
I am the chief of sinners, but forgiven by Christ.
My life is not my own, I die to this world and Live in Christ.
I am saved by Christ alone, by grace alone and by faith alone.

 

[smithed64]

No you clearly do not understand. Having a cross in a church is not a requirement for a good church. You don't need to have a physical cross (which is a relic) in order to understand what the cross means. You are a very confused individual.

Again, it's not a requirement. It's just a question.

I'm not the one confused. You miss the point so far off now. that this is the last response on this subject you will receive from me.
It's too deep for you to understand I guess. When it's not.

It's a question, that's all. Not a requirement. You ask the question to see if the church regards the cross with reverence, respect and honor it deserves. You don't worship it, you don't pray to it, you don't wear it around your neck and kiss it for superstitious reasons. It's a wooden Cross, where Christ died for our sins. To remind us of what He did for us, and that He paid the price for our sins.

If you cannot understand that. I am done with you on this subject. Tired of repeating myself.

 

[John Davidson]

Again, it's not a requirement. It's just a question.

It's one of your listed questions to test if a church is a good church. But I am telling you that a church can be a good church without a physical cross in their building. When I attended Calvary Chapel many of the churches had Doves (a symbol of the Holy Spirit) as their center piece. Did this make them a bad church because they didn't have a cross? Again, there is no need to ask this question as a church is not required to have a cross in order to be a good church.

 

[John Davidson]

I'm a sinner saved by grace, through faith in Christ.
I am the chief of sinners, but forgiven by Christ.
My life is not my own, I die to this world and Live in Christ.
I am saved by Christ alone, by grace alone and by faith alone.

Finally a post I somewhat agree with.

 

[John Davidson]

Let's see what the Bible has to say about it.

“But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:13-14)
Think about it. If God is willing to take care of His children every day, we should be willing to also take care of those who need provisions. Before Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, we were all in dire need of help. We were poor because we all stood in judgment of God’s wrath. Jesus’ death for us completely covered every single sin and took us out of God’s wrath. If Jesus can show that much love to a poor humanity, we can certainly show as much love as possible to the poor people that need help, whether it is financially, physically or emotionally.
The church is made up of the body of Christ. That is the people who attend it. There fore it would stand to reason that the church is also responsible to help those who are in need.

Acts 20:35
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Paul is speaking to a church.

Luke 3:11
And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

Christ is telling the Apostles, and others, the church.

Matthew 25:35-40

34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’

37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’

40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’

Christ is talking to everyone here. That includes the church.
This is what he has to say to those who don't do what he says, to do.

Matthew 25:41-46

41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’

45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. If He says do it. You do it.

No doubt the church should open it's doors to those in need. But when the church comes together as an organization it's main purpose is to preach the word and administer the sacraments. Helping the poor is more the responsibility of the sheep, each individual member of the church as they are able. This is the purpose of teaching the members so they can go out into the world and love others. However, Peter said that he had no silver or gold when he met a beggar. It's not the responsibility of the church or believers to finance the world. The church is not a bank that the poor can come to to withdraw money. Members of the church are often poor themselves.

I don't have much money, actually I am in debt and have a meager monthly allowance. I still do what I can to help others. I give to my church. But my church is not doing well financially. They are running a deficit. They are having a hard enough time paying the bills without financing the affairs of every person living in poverty. That's why our nation has safety nets like food stamps and social security. To help those in need who are unable to find work.

 

[smithed64]

It's one of your listed questions to test if a church is a good church. But I am telling you that a church can be a good church without a physical cross in their building. When I attended Calvary Chapel many of the churches had Doves (a symbol of the Holy Spirit) as their center piece. Did this make them a bad church because they didn't have a cross? Again, there is no need to ask this question as a church is not required to have a cross in order to be a good church.

Below is the header and the #24 question. I never said it was a requirement. Even before I edited it. I didn't say that.You said it.

The following are just some simple questions you could ask the pastor.

Looking for a good church? Join the club.Church-shopping can be a long and painful process. To shorten your search, call the pastor of the church before you visit and ask the following questions. This might save you a lot of Sundays.

24. Do you have a cross in your sanctuary? (edited 11/21/16)
Many remove it because they fear it will turn off seekers. They should glory in the
cross. The message should be Christ crucified. We don't worship the cross, we worship at the cross. Remembering that Christ died for us while we sinned. So that we may be saved from the wrath of God.
We are to be crucified with Christ.

THis is the header and #24. No where in here do I say it's an requirement.

 

[smithed64]

Finally a post I somewhat agree with.

Then you must somewhat agree with scripture.

 

[smithed64]

No doubt the church should open it's doors to those in need. But when the church comes together as an organization it's main purpose is to preach the word and administer the sacraments. Helping the poor is more the responsibility of the sheep, each individual member of the church as they are able. This is the purpose of teaching the members so they can go out into the world and love others. However, Peter said that he had no silver or gold when he met a beggar. It's not the responsibility of the church or believers to finance the world. The church is not a bank that the poor can come to to withdraw money. Members of the church are often poor themselves.

I don't have much money, actually I am in debt and have a meager monthly allowance. I still do what I can to help others. I give to my church. But my church is not doing well financially. They are running a deficit. They are having a hard enough time paying the bills without financing the affairs of every person living in poverty. That's why our nation has safety nets like food stamps and social security. To help those in need who are unable to find work.

If the church did what it suppose to do. There would be no need for entitlements.
That is if all the churches and those who are members did.
The safety net would be just that. A safety need, used only if needed.

You see, God knows what you can give and what you can't. He would never expect you to take from your table to feed someone else, unless you can do so.

Yes Peter said that to the lame man. He begged because He was lame and could not work for a living. So Peter, laid hands on him and he was healed. So he could go and work as He should do.

Many of the people today who are on entitlements,have no business on it.
They are plenty able to work. But why work when you can so called get it for free. I say so called,because it isn't free. Those of us who work for a living, pay for it.

That's why the Bible tells us. A man don't work,he don't eat. And that a man who doesn't take care of His family is worse than an infidel.

But to say that the church doesn't need to do it. Is wrong. It does.

 

[John Davidson]

If the church did what it suppose to do. There would be no need for entitlements.

No where in scripture is the requirement given for the church to provide for the physical necessities of the entire human race. Most of us have a hard enough time just taking care of ourselves and our families. If what you are saying is true then there would have been no poor in Jesus day because he would have provided for them all. The Churches purpose is to preach the word and administer the sacraments, to provide a place to worship and grow in grace and knowledge as a disciple of Christ. It's purpose is not to be a welfare institution.

 

[smithed64]

No where in scripture is the requirement given for the church to provide for the physical necessities of the entire human race. Most of us have a hard enough time just taking care of ourselves and our families. If what you are saying is true then there would have been no poor in Jesus day because he would have provided for them all. The Churches purpose is to preach the word and administer the sacraments, to provide a place to worship and grow in grace and knowledge as a disciple of Christ. It's purpose is not to be a welfare institution.

The Church is the body of Christ. We are to Love our Neighbor as Christ love the Church.
That includes, feeding the poor, clothing those who don't have clothing, taking care of others.
Who do you think started the first Hospital. It was a church. Who started the education system...it was the church. Who started the prison system..it was a church. Who started the colleges...it was the church.

It's very simple. If all the Children of God or Christians in the world today would just pay out a dollar. 1 dollar...a George Washington...there would be enough money put away to feed hundreds of thousands of people.

US - 246,780,000 (79.5% of the Population)
Brazil - 175,770,000 (90.2% of the Population)
Mexico - 107,780,000 (95% of the Population)

Just these three countries could handle over 528 million people...if they all gave 1 dollar. If they paid 1 dollar a day for 30 days...they could have over 1.5 trillion dollars. That's is just the churches.

We don't do that. We tend to stick to our neighbors and our local communities. Which is fine, we should.
My church has a pantry, we feed over 2 to 3 hundred people on a weekly basis. Sometimes more.
God has blessed us for doing this and He has led many to church and salvation thru the pantry ministry in many churches.
We spread the Gospel, using what God has given us and thru the ministries that He leads us down.
This isn't difficult, look at the big picture and you might just see what I mean.
There are always the poor, as long as there is an economic system, there will always be poor people or those who can't take care of themselves, or those who can't work and need a helping hand. It's our responsibility to make sure they get this help. In what ever little way we can. If it means you go to a soup kitchen for an hour during lunch, then go and let God direct you and help you to spread the Gospel.
Churches are much more than a place to where the Word is preached. Yes, God is the head of Christ and Christ is the head of the church. And we the congregation are the body of the church, with all these different ministries that are the appendages of the body of Christ.
It's not hard to think this.
So please, broaden your mind a little, See all that God uses to win the Lost. Because He uses everything and everybody to do so. He has even used the lost to get His message across to people. It's not difficult at all.

 

[All4Christ]