How to encourage the congregation to give tithes and offering

Dave-W said:

And what "needs" do you include in that list?

Do you think that all churches should meet in private homes, and that pastors should not be paid?

Click to expand...

Having a building to go to, seems to be off the list of needs. Which I have no problem with....if you arent going to and experiencing the benefits of the building.

RaymondG said:

Having a building to go to, seems to be off the list of needs. Which I have no problem with....if you arent going to and experiencing the benefits of the building.

Click to expand...

So where do you put a congregation of 200-300? or a few thousand?

Dave-W said:

So where do you put a congregation of 200-300? or a few thousand?

Click to expand...

Im not opposed to buying a mansion for you all to come gather over snacks to discuss the word......I believe many religious would oppose of this idea though......as i would have to sleep there when you guys leave.

RaymondG said:

So you believe that one should be able to enter a building....experience the heat on the building in the winter, AC in the summer....use the facilities therein, which we demand be clean....enjoy a time there.... But care little about how the building is kept open for them to return the next week?

Would you say the same for hospitals? Pay for the medicine and the doctors labor and help other patients but dont worry about keeping the hospital doors open?

Click to expand...

Perhaps I can answer your question with a question:

Are you suggesting that the needs of the congregation and its comforts within their communal building should take priority over the needs of fellow believers?

I have yet to see anywhere in scripture where the tithe and/or primary giving of any peoples were for the support of facilities.

Jr

Dave-W said:

And what "needs" do you include in that list?

Do you think that all churches should meet in private homes, and that pastors should not be paid?

Click to expand...

Do you seriously need that spelled out for you? Your question is indicative of the very problem with people today calling the primary portion of what they hand over to their religious organization they call their "church" a matter of "giving." How is that "giving" when the "givers" personally benefit from it?

What earthly benefit is there to giving to those living on the streets? Ah, but when modern, Western professing believers "give" to their (c)hurch organization and feel that warm fuzzie, it can't be attributed to being biblical.

I have no problem with a group hiring what they want to call their "pastor", and paying him whatever they want. Some even hire women as their "pastor". They all have that right, but claiming it's totally consistent with the Bible is a very looooong stretch. However, one doesn't have to be tied to some facility filled with people who hired him to be a genuine pastor called by God.

Jr

SwordmanJr said:

Are you suggesting that the needs of the congregation and its comforts within their communal building should take priority over the needs of fellow believers?

Click to expand...

I would say that fellow believers need to have heat in the winter when they gather. Would you think it just to ask people to gather together in a building with no heat in the winter and no AC in the summer? While they are there, should they be forced to hold their excrement in till they get home because plumbing broke and the upkeep of the building is last priority?

I say taking care of the building is taking care of the believers. Those currently there, and the new believers that may come in from the street.

Hospitals and clubs, and bars provide their patrons AC heat and bathrooms with the money they collect....Why should the church provide less for the people that come into them?

SwordmanJr said:

I have yet to see anywhere in scripture where the tithe and/or primary giving of any peoples were for the support of facilities.

Click to expand...

I said nothing of tithes or the use thereof. Maybe you meant this for the OPer?

RaymondG said:

I would say that fellow believers need to have heat in the winter when they gather. Would you think it just to ask people to gather together in a building with no heat in the winter and no AC in the summer?

Click to expand...

It's interesting you didn't answer my question.

Look, I never said a group has no right to possess a communal facility with heating and air conditioning. Nobody suggested that at all. If you read what I actually said, I emphatically addressed PRIORITIES in our giving. You will search in vain one statement where I said that groups have no right to support their institutional churchianity facility and hireling staffing. So, the result of all this is that your question is a question from silence. It has no meat since I never said that your question implies.

While they are there, should they be forced to hold their excrement in till they get home because plumbing broke and the upkeep of the building is last priority?

Click to expand...

This really is going too far. You need to get a grip on yourself, focus your reading comprehension skills upon what I actually said, and stop with the indirect, false accusation.

I say taking care of the building is taking care of the believers. Those currently there, and the new believers that may come in from the street.

Click to expand...

Now THAT is the typical sentiment of the vast majority of the churchianity-goers I have encountered over the years. That's similar to the claim that "chuch tradition" is on the same level as the authority of scripture. It's warped and tragic, to say the least. It ignores biblical priorities in giving.

For clarification, I'm not saying that all churchianity-goers feel the same way as RaymondG. I don't paint all within a grouping with the broad brush strokes of generalization.

Hospitals and clubs, and bars provide their patrons AC heat and bathrooms with the money they collect....Why should the church provide less for the people that come into them?

Click to expand...

Well, now, bars and clubs are your comparative justification for the business model of typical churchianity. Dude, you have mastered the art of exemplifying as being "good" so much of what's so wrong with religious institutionalism...with it being more of a business model than a biblical one.

I said nothing of tithes or the use thereof. Maybe you meant this for the OPer?

Click to expand...

I was talking about giving, not tithing. Tithing for today is not a valid teaching as it relates to modern believers. Not one living soul walking this planet has yet been able to show even one reference where the OT tithe ever had anything to do with the wages of wage earners, and yet it's taught in so many quadrants that the tithe was always leveled against earned wages exchanged for labor and all goods.

When I ask them where it's stated that carpenters (knock on wood) were ever required to hand over every tenth chair, table, or even head-knocking clubs, to the Levites, or every tenth fish, or every tenth yard of spun material, or the wool from every tenth sheep, etc.

Jr

LaBèlla said:

My aunt attended a church with “encouragement messages” that were recited each week before collections were taken. She didn’t feel good about it and likened it to guilt of some sort. And she has the gift of giving.

Click to expand...

One thing I appreciated about my Lutheran church was that they were simply honest about finances without trying to pressure anyone to give money to them.