JW How to defeat JW at the door?

The7thColporteur

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2017
1,336
266
Heavenly City
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
This is really off topic.

If you want, then start another thread.
If you want to point out that JW's are people too and make mistakes then please start another thread to that effect.
I'm not really sure what it is you even want to discuss, you beat around the bush alot in your post, I'm not about to search your links for an argument, if you want to make an argument then go ahead, start another thread.
In essence, start another thread, because its off topic.
If you do start another thread then please make the OP as short as possible, because otherwise it becomes an monologue born out of arrogance rather than an invitation to discussion.
In any case I agree with you firstly that JW'S are people too.

Regards
Hello Ratiocination,

Thank you for responding as you have.

Not really, as I am speaking about those Jehovah's Witnesses whom I have met at a door, whether mine or theirs.

The internet, is also a door or window between two ploaces, a conduit, as is a phone and a text. Thus, I am speaking with you at such a crossroads, or meeting place as this forum [your heart is the door, as Jesus shows in Revelation 3, therefore: "Knock, Knock, anyone home?" I wonder if you will answer this call of mine, as it is an invitation from the highest Kingdom, in the hands of a kingly ambassador ...]. The OP was about how to defeat Jehovah's Witnesses in such places, as at a door. I was more concerned about winning such persons to truth, in such places, and inviting them to dialogue rather than running them off, or simply winning an argument.

My questions concern two things, prophecy, in Daniel and in Revelation, as it is in scripture [KJB] and as it is in WTS materials. The secondary regards the materials of the WTS in the named online book WTS, "Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life".

I have in the past, when meeting at such doors, with Jehovah's Witnesses, found they are not interested in truth [hence your current refusal to look at the linked material], but in subscriptions, as they will not answer my questions [and I have no idea why, as they don't ever tell me]. If all that is wanted is some tally numbers for your weekly sheet, you may add me to it, and I will move on.

I will let the OP user decide if I have gone off OP or no, and if they say that I have, I will leave and create a new thread. Will you give me your "Yea", that you will join and answer my honest questions?
 
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Hello Ratiocination,

Thank you for responding as you have.

Not really, as I am speaking about those Jehovah's Witnesses whom I have met at a door, whether mine or theirs.

The internet, is also a door or window between two ploaces, a conduit, as is a phone and a text. Thus, I am speaking with you at such a crossroads, or meeting place as this forum [your heart is the door, as Jesus shows in Revelation 3, therefore: "Knock, Knock, anyone home?" I wonder if you will answer this call of mine, as it is an invitation from the highest Kingdom, in the hands of a kingly ambassador ...]. The OP was about how to defeat Jehovah's Witnesses in such places, as at a door. I was more concerned about winning such persons to truth, in such places, and inviting them to dialogue rather than running them off, or simply winning an argument.

My questions concern two things, prophecy, in Daniel and in Revelation, as it is in scripture [KJB] and as it is in WTS materials. The secondary regards the materials of the WTS in the named online book WTS, "Jesus—The Way, the Truth, the Life".

I have in the past, when meeting at such doors, with Jehovah's Witnesses, found they are not interested in truth [hence your current refusal to look at the linked material], but in subscriptions, as they will not answer my questions [and I have no idea why, as they don't ever tell me]. If all that is wanted is some tally numbers for your weekly sheet, you may add me to it, and I will move on.

I will let the OP user decide if I have gone off OP or no, and if they say that I have, I will leave and create a new thread. Will you give me your "Yea", that you will join and answer my honest questions?
 
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
7thColporteur...

The OP is quite specific on "how" to defeat a JW, and it was a discussion of asserting the ownership of certain identities to speakers in the book of Revelation.
You are talking about prophecy in Daniel and Revelation. Seems very off topic to me.
Again, if you've got an argument that you feel is worth discussing then I'm all ears, but I will not look through "linked" materials to find your arguments for you, you need to state them clearly here [in an appropriately named thread], otherwise I will assume you don't really want to talk but instead what to waste my time!
And please stop with the monologues, it serves no one and wastes cyber ink!
Make an argument!

Sorry I posted the first post by accident it's supposed to quote your reply in here too!

Regards
 
Upvote 0

The7thColporteur

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2017
1,336
266
Heavenly City
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
7thColporteur...

The OP is quite specific on "how" to defeat a JW, and it was a discussion of asserting the ownership of certain identities to speakers in the book of Revelation.
You are talking about prophecy in Daniel and Revelation. Seems very off topic to me. ...
Again, I will let the OP decide.

Prophecy is how you 'defeat' the WTS, and win the Jehovah's Witness. Reading their material is how one 'defeats' the WTS, and 'wins' the person to truth.

I always accept their material at the door, read it, highlight it, and ask them to come back to discuss it in the light of scripture [KJB] and their own published materials.

... Again, if you've got an argument that you feel is worth discussing then I'm all ears, but I will not look through "linked" materials to find your arguments for you ...
The linked material proves Michael is Jesus, but since you did not look ... and Christians from the beginning, and every Reformer taught this, but since you did not look [or can't, or won't ...]

... , you need to state them clearly here [in an appropriately named thread], otherwise I will assume ...
Yes, 'assuming' is what the WTS does best, they assume for everyone. I was hoping you might be different that those I have met in the past.

... you don't really want to talk but instead what to waste my time!
I tried to ask you something specific about two things, Prophecy and WTS materials, and a named book thereof. I asked you if you would engage those two things here. Will you? If not here, then in another thread? I need a 'Yea' or 'Nay' from you specifically.

... And please stop with the monologues, it serves no one and wastes cyber ink! ...
You are very controlling.

... Make an argument! ...
I am. Namely that Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to read other than WTS publications in regards prophecy or doctrine. If not so, prove me wrong by considering the two links, to an independant study, my own personal in fact. It is published free for all, that all may benefit.

... Sorry I posted the first post by accident it's supposed to quote your reply in here too!

Regards
I understood what you meant.
 
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

Episcopalian
Site Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,263
4,931
Indiana
✟938,587.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Is there anything in the OP that you find compelling?

No, there really isn't.
...
Maybe I could ask you; How many speakers are there in Revelation?
The guy that started this thread is clearly not interested in civil discussion, but maybe you are?

I suspect we don't really know how many speakers there are in Revelation. Ever read "Misquoting Jesus" by Ehrman?
 
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Again, I will let the OP decide.

Prophecy is how you 'defeat' the WTS, and win the Jehovah's Witness. Reading their material is how one 'defeats' the WTS, and 'wins' the person to truth.

I always accept their material at the door, read it, highlight it, and ask them to come back to discuss it in the light of scripture [KJB] and their own published materials.

The linked material proves Michael is Jesus, but since you did not look ... and Christians from the beginning, and every Reformer taught this, but since you did not look [or can't, or won't ...]

Yes, 'assuming' is what the WTS does best, they assume for everyone. I was hoping you might be different that those I have met in the past.

I tried to ask you something specific about two things, Prophecy and WTS materials, and a named book thereof. I asked you if you would engage those two things here. Will you? If not here, then in another thread? I need a 'Yea' or 'Nay' from you specifically.

You are very controlling.

I am. Namely that Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to read other than WTS publications in regards prophecy or doctrine. If not so, prove me wrong by considering the two links, to an independant study, my own personal in fact. It is published free for all, that all may benefit.

I understood what you meant.
So I've read about attempted predictions of Christians since the first century onward, I'm a little confused why you think your angle is out of bounds to JW'S?
I read the first link you posted, well skimmed it, haven't looked at the second yet. I did read the first link when you first posted it, but listen, I'm not chasing around your materials to find an argument for you, that was my point.
Btw I think you've put in some long hours on those materials, and I was intending to cause offense, I appreciate anyone's sincere Bible study, and it certainly looks like you've done that. BUT, your needlessly informing me about your meetings with other JW's really serves no purpose with me, it seems that it's only purpose is some kind of point scoring excercise, and that'll just put most people off wanting to talk to you. I'm not controlling, just pointing out that talking about yourself is a little vain... Be "straight down the middle", tell me what youre thinking and I'll respond.
 
Upvote 0

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

seeking.IAM

Episcopalian
Site Supporter
Feb 29, 2004
4,263
4,931
Indiana
✟938,587.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Well you better believe it or, apparently, you're going to hell with me!

Not yet, but I've just purchased it from Amazon lol
View media item 58799

I think belief in the book of Revelation is not the foundation for salvation. So, in that regard we're probably both safe...at least in regards to that.
 
Upvote 0

The7thColporteur

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2017
1,336
266
Heavenly City
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Last edited:
Upvote 0

CCHIPSS

Love will overcome evil (Romans 12:9-21)
Jul 10, 2014
1,527
497
Vancouver, BC
✟34,527.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
CA-Liberals
What respect? In your OP and in this comment above you've shown that you have no respect whatsoever for me or the organisation I belong to. Why should I discuss your obvious errors in revelation with you? What's the point? I've made many many comments on this forum over the years regarding the excellent writings of John in Revelation, none of those were belittling or attacking in any way!

If you don't want to listen to me, listen to the other comments on here who have said the same thing to you!

So maybe rather than telling me I'm going to hell for my opinions and beliefs here, just be nice, apologise for the attacking and the moral superiority complex you've got, and we can proceed!
Regards

If you feel offended I apologize. I will say that my original intend is to teach Christians how to defeat JW's with theology. I didn't write it to be gentle with JW's, since JW's wasn't my original audience.

Either way I cannot control how you feel. Because the meaning of being "rude" is different from person to person. So there is no way I can make you feel that I am not rude to you, even if I tried. I can also say I don't feel respected by you. So let's just end this discussion on rudeness since it leads to nowhere.

As for hell, it is truly my belief that JW's are heading to hell. I don't have to say it, for the sake of being "polite". But what I believe is what I believe. And if it make you feel better, I think anyone that hates the true Jesus and hates their neighbours are heading to hell. This includes people from all other faith, and even some people inside churches. I know plenty of church goers that hates God and hates their neighbours, by their evil and harmful deeds. And I confront and discipline them as needed.

So my "disrespect" (as you called it) doesn't apply to JW's alone, but anyone that I feel might be heading to hell. I state plainly the truth because I love them. If I lie just to make them feel better, just to be polite or just to get them to like me, that isn't true love.

Because anyone that accepts the true Jesus as their savior, and in return love God and love their neighbours will be saved. No one can love God yet hate their neighbours. Because God is love. God didn't just save us, but call us into a mandatory new life of love (Luke 8:11-18). Our confidence of eternal life must be based on the evidence that just as God is love, we also demonstrate love in this world. (1 John 4:16-21) Hence if I see anyone that acts in a way that hates the true Jesus or hate their neighbours, I must confront and discipline them if I truly love them.

I have nothing but love for JW's and other non-believers. I say this even as you might think I was disrespectful. I do not necessarily express it politely and perfectly. But I do care about these people's eternal well being. Now I say this while being open to improve myself to be more polite. We all have room for improvement. But right now I do not question my love for those that are lost.

There is one thing that I wish you can prove me wrong. From my experience with JW's, real life or online, they keep on dodging questions. They will never give you a clear answer. They go around in circles wasting time and never fight a Christian directly with right theology. Because JW's know they cannot. The right theology is with Christians, not JW. JW's can only stick to their scripts, just as the Watchtower taught them.

Like here you are focusing about how rude I am, instead of the discussion at hand. And just like how you keep on saying The7thColporteur is going "off topic" without talking about his/her points. To me you are just avoiding and delaying the discussion, going around in circles. You do this to wait for an opportunity to go back to your practiced Watertower scripts.

Please notice that when JW's do this they don't actually get to the truth. They might be able to win a particular argument against Christians with these tactics. But Jehovah God is our witness and truth is all that matters.

Perhaps you can prove me wrong. I am all ears. =)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ratiocination

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2004
978
31
London
✟4,702.00
Faith
Jehovahs Witness
Marital Status
Private
If you feel offended I apologize. I will say that my original intend is to teach Christians how to defeat JW's with theology. I didn't write it to be gentle with JW's, since JW's wasn't my original audience.
The bible doesn't contain theology, it contains simple truths. Thanks for the apology, accepted.

Either way I cannot control how you feel. Because the meaning of being "rude" is different from person to person. So there is no way I can make you feel that I am not rude to you, even if I tried. I can also say I don't feel respected by you. So let's just end this discussion on rudeness since it leads to nowhere.
Ministry failed.
As for hell, it is truly my belief that JW's are heading to hell. I don't have to say it, for the sake of being "polite". But what I believe is what I believe. And if it make you feel better, I think anyone that hates the true Jesus and hates their neighbours are heading to hell. This includes people from all other faith, and even some people inside churches. I know plenty of church goers that hates God and hates their neighbours, by their evil and harmful deeds. And I confront and discipline them as needed.
It is truly my belief that hell is an invention of medieval men to scare the living daylights out of the masses. It's because of this doctrine that you cannot ever have the courage to investigate fully their own beliefs.
Hypothetically: If you were Satan and you wanted to make sure that truth seekers wouldn't find the real Jesus, would't you go ahead and create a false doctrine that said you will burn forever if you change your beliefs? Imagine this kind of thing being the work of the True God, I mean seriously, this is so obviously not true. It makes me wonder what or where people have gone wrong in either their upbringing or bible study to think this is even slightly true. This is a threat from Satan, nothing more.

So my "disrespect" (as you called it) doesn't apply to JW's alone, but anyone that I feel might be heading to hell. I state plainly the truth because I love them. If I lie just to make them feel better, just to be polite or just to get them to like me, that isn't true love.
No one is going to hell, not you or anyone, the truth must be a willing sacrifice of one's life and service, not a threat, be serious!

Because anyone that accepts the true Jesus as their savior, and in return love God and love their neighbours will be saved. No one can love God yet hate their neighbours. Because God is love. God didn't just save us, but call us into a mandatory new life of love (Luke 8:11-18). Our confidence of eternal life must be based on the evidence that just as God is love, we also demonstrate love in this world. (1 John 4:16-21) Hence if I see anyone that acts in a way that hates the true Jesus or hate their neighbours, I must confront and discipline them if I truly love them.
If you don't accept this version of Jesus I will burn you and your family including your beloved wife, children, mother, brothers helpless friends, right in front of your face for you to see their tears and pain forever, while they scream for help and beg for mercy I will make you watch them burn, and I will enjoy this pain because you deserve it. This is obviously not true of the real God!

I have nothing but love for JW's and other non-believers. I say this even as you might think I was disrespectful. I do not necessarily express it politely and perfectly. But I do care about these people's eternal well being. Now I say this while being open to improve myself to be more polite. We all have room for improvement. But right now I do not question my love for those that are lost.
Those that are "lost" are going to burn.

There is one thing that I wish you can prove me wrong. From my experience with JW's, real life or online, they keep on dodging questions. They will never give you a clear answer. They go around in circles wasting time and never fight a Christian directly with right theology. Because JW's know they cannot. The right theology is with Christians, not JW. JW's can only stick to their scripts, just as the Watchtower taught them.

Like here you are focusing about how rude I am, instead of the discussion at hand. And just like how you keep on saying The7thColporteur is going "off topic" without talking about his/her points. To me you are just avoiding and delaying the discussion, going around in circles. You do this to wait for an opportunity to go back to your practiced Watertower scripts.
Wait, so it's my fault you're rude? I thought you apologised up top? You are the one going around in circles here. The7thColporteur has been answered and proceed to dump pages and pages of information into the thread, this is not debate, it's a logical fallacy called Gish galloping, used when you want to overwhelm your "opponent" and force them to spend hours just plucking out all of the shallow and weak points. There were lots of weak points! I've said to him I don't know where to begin with his material, it was a question to him. So read the other thread again and be fair about the situation.

Please notice that when JW's do this they don't actually get to the truth. They might be able to win a particular argument against Christians with these tactics. But Jehovah God is our witness and truth is all that matters.

Perhaps you can prove me wrong. I am all ears. =)
Well, I answered all the points in the OP then I was told I'm going to hell, how could you possibly type this last part with a straight face!?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Catholic4Jesus

Active Member
Site Supporter
Apr 10, 2018
92
15
48
Brisbane
✟60,805.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I'm always happy to talk about Jesus and my faith with people. I do admire the way JWs put their spare time into door to door preaching, it is commendable. Do I agree with them doctrinally? Absolutely not, but I am always kind and open to talking to and listening to them and, of course, sharing my faith with them.
 
Upvote 0

The7thColporteur

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2017
1,336
266
Heavenly City
✟18,906.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
...The7thColporteur has been answered and proceed to dump pages and pages of information into the thread, this is not debate, it's a logical fallacy called Gish galloping, used when you want to overwhelm your "opponent" and force them to spend hours just plucking out all of the shallow and weak points. There were lots of weak points! I've said to him I don't know where to begin with his material, it was a question to him. So read the other thread again and be fair about the situation. ...
They're called "details".

It amazes me yet still that a WTS member would use an anti-creationist, anti-scriptural, atheistical-God-hating so-called 'logical fallacy' [defined by anti-God person - Gish Gallop - RationalWiki see "... The term was coined by Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education in the 1990s, and is named after the behavior of creationist Duane Gish[2] ..."] , you sure do know how to pick your allies don't you?, those who do not actually have logic, since they deny Jesus, the God of logic, guess it would fit right in with WTS] argument instead of a scriptural [KJB] one.

By the way, what was this of yours?, citing in list format so-called LXX [which disagrees with your NWT by the way] - Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

You even fell on the side of a syncratist against truth - Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

It is easy to 'hand-wave'. There was no agreement that I had to limit my answer to so many words, and I never agreed to such a thing. I am not afraid of pages of evidence. I study, read, consider, compare.

WTS/JW have about 8 texts on this issue they circle around and around, and around, John 1:1; Colossians 1:16; 1 John 5:7; John 10:29; Revelation 3:14 ... zzzzzzzz [well if they want to go there, let's go, already posted on those]

Feel free to address specifically any "weak points" you seem to think there are, and could you at least address the "strong points" too instead of bypassing those?, but while you are doing that, at the same time, could you actually address my questions that I had asked to heman from the start?

By the way, have you even bothered to consider the evidences I laid out from scripture and history for the "Cross", and even showed that the WTS misused its citations? Hello??? [of course I know what you will say... 'you didn't answer my ...'; and then see the OP again]


Godhead:

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

Well, beyond all that, I saw your post - Non-Trinitarian - The God or a god

And it was too late before I saw it, so the Prophecy Thread is up, ready to go, just waiting for you -

JW - Prophecy - 2 Peter 1:19-21; Genesis 40:8 KJB - Daniel & Revelation, etc. Who's Right? SDA or WTS/JW?

Evidence, details, citations, references, documentation, let's have it. Please read the rules carefully, before beginning.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,750
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,779.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
1-Don’t bother listening to their rehearsed speech. Go on the offensive.

2-Ask them if Jesus is God, or was Jesus just a god. Their answer: Jesus is just a god, created by Jehovah. Only Jehovah is God. Ask them what is the Holy Spirit. Their answer: There is no Holy Spirit. That was just the power and force of God.

3-Borrow their New World Translation (their mistranslated/corrupted version of the bible) from them. You can read it online here.
New World Translation (2013 Revision) | Published by Jehovah’s Witnesses

4-Go to Revelation 1:8 and read: 8 “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,”*q says Jehovah* God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”r

5-Ask them “Who is Alpha and Omega?” Ther answer: Jehowah

6-Go to Revelation 1:17-18 and read: 17 When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet.And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the Firstk and the Last,l 18 and the living one,m and I became dead,n but look! I am living forever and ever,o and I have the keys of death and of the Grave.*p

7-Look them dead in the eyes and ask them “Who is the First and the Last? Who have the keys of death and of the grave” Their answer: Jehovah. Then ask them “When then did Jehovah die?” They will try to dodge this question by this point. But keep pressing them “When did Jehovah die, and then become alive again?” and don’t get distracted. Eventually they will try to say that “First and Last is only Jesus. Alpha and Omega is Jehovah”.

Also read Revelation 2:8 : 8 “And to the angel of the congregation in Smyrʹna write: These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last,’+ who became dead and came to life again:+

8-Go to Revelation 22:12–14 and read: 12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work.o 13 I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,*p the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash their robes,q so that they may have authority to go to the trees of lifer and that they may gain entrance into the city through its gates.s

9-Ask them “Who is Alpha and Omega, first and last, beginning and end?” Their answer: Jehovah. Then ask them “But you just said that First and Last is only Jesus. Alpha and Omega is Jehovah.” Once again they will try to avoid this question. Keep pressing them about “When did Jehovah die, and then become alive again?”

10-Stay in Revelation 22 keep on reading to the end, verses 15–21: 15 Outside are the dogs* and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral* and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying.’t 16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of Davidu and the bright morning star.’”v 17 And the spirit and the bridew keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come;x let anyone who wishes take life’s water free.y 18 “I am bearing witness to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things,z God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll;a 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of lifeb and out of the holy city,c things that are written about in this scroll. 20 “The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’”d“Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” 21 May the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus be with the holy ones.

11-Ask them about verse 13 “I am Alpha and Omega” and verse 16 “I, Jesus, sent an angel to bear witness to you”. Who sent this message to John, delivered by an angel? Jehovah or Jesus sent it? Then look at verses 12 and 20 and ask them “Who is coming quickly? Jehovah or Lord Jesus?” Then go to verse 17 and ask them “If the Holy Spirit is just the power of God and not an entity, how can it speak? And how can it be with the bride (believers)?” They will keep on dodging and avoiding your questions.

After they dodge around enough go to Revelation 22 verse 18. Ask them if they are guilty of adding and taking away any words on the prophecies of this scroll. Ask if they fear God’s plagues and losing the tree of life.

12-You can ask them to leave at this point. You’ve done your part and hopefully God will be merciful to these Jehovah’s Witness.

Conclusion (all from NWT):

A:Jehovah God calls himself Alpha and Omega, Beginning and the End. (Revelation 1:8)

B:Jesus calls himself the First and the Last, one who died but is living forever more. (Revelation 1:17–18)

C: Jesus calls himself the the First and the Last, who became dead and came to life again. (Revelation 2:8)

D:Jesus calls himself Alpha and Omega, First and Last, Beginning and the End. (Revelation 22:13)

So:

Jesus is Jehovah God.

Extra notes (These require reading Greek from the Interlinear bible):

Greek, Hebrew, Transliterated, English, Strong's

13-Go to NWT Revelation 22:8-9. Read: 8 Well I, John, was the one hearing and seeing these things. When I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing me these things. 9 But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers the prophets and of those observing the words of this scroll. Worship God.”n

14- Then go to NWT John 20:28–29. Read: 28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”y 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Happy are those who have not seen and yet believe.”z

15- Ask the JW why Jesus didn’t rebuke Thomas when Thomas called Jesus capital God, as in Jehovah God, when the angel did. Their answer: The God here means “a god”, not Jehovah God. Tell them that they cannot claim that, because their own NWT used capital G. If they cannot even trust what their own NWT wrote, they got nothing to stand on.

Or they will say “Thomas say to Jesus my Lord, and then look to heaven and say my God”. No worries. Go to the interlinear bible and read: “The Lord of me and the God of me!” Ask them why is the word “and” in the Interlinear Greek. And if “and” is there, how can JW claim that these two things were said separately.

16- Read John 1:1 in NWT: 1 In the beginning was the Word,a and the Word was with God,b and the Word was a god.c

17-Ask them why it says “And the Word was a God” Their Answer: No article, so small g in Greek.

Then read John 1:6, 12 and 13. 6 There came a man who was sent as a representative of God; his name was John.h ……. 12 However, to all who did receive him, he gave authority to become God’s children,p because they were exercising faith in his name.q 13 And they were born, not from blood or from a fleshly will or from man’s will, but from God.r

Also read John 13:3: 3 So Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands and that he came from God and was going to God,f

18-Ask them why in verses 6, 12, 13 and John 13:3 they are translated as “God”, but in John 1:1 it is “a god”, when none of them have an article before the word “God”. Show them in the interlinear Greek. Once again they will dodge the question. Point here is that JW is inconsistent with their own translation. The JW’s NWT don’t even follow their own “No article, so small g in Greek” rule throughout.

Further reading:
http://www.harvestbiblechurch.net/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-false-prophets

The short cut in Rev 1:8 is to ask, who is to come again? When did he come the first time?
 
Upvote 0

GodsGrace101

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2018
6,713
2,298
Tuscany
✟231,507.00
Country
Italy
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why would you want to "defeat" one of Jehovah's Witnesses (Isiah 43:10)? Surely a pleasant conversation would be much more Christian! (Psalm 133:1)
Why just talk when you could possibly get someone saved?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums