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Rule of conscience. Thought I was clear. Interesting I don't need to deflect on it, because it clearly governed every righteous act in biblical history.You don't know how to follow God?
I suggest you take a look at his law.
Ha! You really cannot even see my point??? Just as @Clare73 says, we always freely choose according to our inclinations.Should I try to be evil?
Sheer assertion. Again, what fuels the motions of angels? Do they fill up at the gas pump?Ha! You really cannot even see my point??? Just as @Clare73 says, we always freely choose according to our inclinations.
Maybe I should have said, "Funny, how you always choose according to your inclinations". Or maybe I should have gone one step further: "Funny how you always choose as you were caused to choose!", since, yes, your inclinations are caused.
My response is more Biblical.Rule of conscience. Thought I was clear. Interesting I don't need to deflect on it, because it clearly governed every righteous act in biblical history.
The advice where you told me to ask Abraham, Moses, and Joshua? Sorry I don't pray to the saints, so I'll stick with the rule of conscience.My advice is better.
Ha! You really cannot even see my point??? Just as @Clare73 says, we always freely choose according to our inclinations.
Naw, my response was more Biblical.The advice where you told me to ask Abraham, Moses, and Joshua? Sorry I don't pray to the saints, so I'll stick with the rule of conscience.
You are so far off the mark it's not even funny. The written law came by the Voice - in fact the 10 commandments were voiced by God to all Israel before engraved in stone tablets.You don't know how to follow God?
I suggest you take a look at his law.
Haha! Did you have any idea when you posted this, that it would run this long and be this much 'fun'?
Are you serious?? Did you think Clare was recommending praying to the saints here??? Is this the most valid response you could come up with????The advice where you told me to ask Abraham, Moses, and Joshua? Sorry I don't pray to the saints, so I'll stick with the rule of conscience.
You are too kind.Naw, my response was more Biblical.
DeflectionUseless word games on "authority."
Show me a scenario where the rule of conscience shouldn't govern my behavior.
Nope. I previously demonstrated that your complaints about "final authority" are irrelevant and thus a word game. Ultimately we face a pragmatic issue: what principle guides our conduct? Answer: rule of conscience.Deflection
You're kidding, right?You are so far off the mark it's not even funny. The written law came by the Voice - in fact the 10 commandments were voiced by God to all Israel before engraved in stone tablets.
The Hebrew word for voice is qowl and it occurs 500 times, always in sonic contexts. The expression, "Obey my voice" (or a similar phrase) occurs 50 times in the OT. Now here's the clincher: the expression, "Obey my laws" is almost never found (unless one is reading a poor translation such as the NIV which essentially ignores the sonic Hebrew word qowl, unjustifiably replacing it with 'law').
Moreover, even the Hebrew word "obey" is SONIC in origin, it means to hearken as unto a voice.
To summarize: the OT saints were under the Voice - a subjective experience - NOT under written law.
Is it impossible to figure out how to completely avoid harming oneself?Anything else makes no sense. Paul says that love does no harm to one's neighbor. It is IMPOSSIBLE for the feeble human mind, no matter how much one studies written law, to figure out how to completely avoid accidentally harming one's neighbor.
But just how much spiritual sentience do you attribute to the spiritually dead, to claim it is not fair for God to create them for ultimate destruction for God's own purposes?Your argument is that given that God can script every action. He does so - as Calvin also states. The problem is that 1 John 4:16 says that God is love and 1 Timothy 2:4 says that God desires all men to be saved. That effectively cancels God predestinating any to eternal torment from before their birth as Calvin proclaims. That should spell the end of Calvinist doctrine - their claiming solo scriptura is just more posturing. Self determination is not in opposition to God, as Jesus states in Mark 16:16 that God has made provision for men - as those who believe and are baptized are saved - that is the good news, the Gospel! The power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16-17). Believe the Gospel without throwing in caveats!
You're kidding, right? Life is that simple? You're faced with a gazillion possible financial investments. If you choose a bad one - or fail to choose one - you've already harmed your family, quite likely. How do you choose? Look it up in Scripture?Is it impossible to figure out how to completely avoid harming oneself?
No one is required, nor is it expected, to exceed that standard.
Just don't do to them what you don't want done to you, and
commit to their welfare as you are committed to your own.
In part, the written law is a crutch for we who are not in close touch with the Voice (read this as spiritual immaturity). It's better than nothing, in many cases.The stone tablets were just chopped liver?
Your "rule of conscience" is a misnomer, when it is simply a reference to God's law as the object of obedience.Nope. I previously demonstrated that your complaints about "final authority" are irrelevant and thus a word game. Ultimately we face a pragmatic issue: what principle guides our conduct? Answer: rule of conscience.
You live by it - otherwise you would have named a scenario in your life warranting departure from it.
Tell me, Mark, when should one try to do evil? And how often?
You're speaking gibberish. You've accomplished literally zilch in the way of explaining how human life and existence can function without feelings of certainty. You wouldn't even drive a car, buy a house, go to church (etc, etc, etc,) without some degree of certainty about the possible benefits.Your "rule of conscience" is a misnomer, when it is simply a reference to God's law as the object of obedience.
You've turned conscience into an interloper.
I don't consult my conscience regarding good investments, I consult financial data and operating strategy.You're kidding, right? Life is that simple? You're faced with a gazillion possible financial investments. If you choose a bad one - or fail to choose one - you've already harmed your family, quite likely. How do you choose? Look it up in Scripture?
And you know that God has not built the environment to deal with deadly carcinogens, how?You could harm your own family just by failing to choose the best health insurance policy, or the best options on that policy. Same with all the other types of insurance.
Or, you buy a product such as a car. The manufacturing process for this product, it so happens, is leeching deadly carcinogens into the environment. God would prefer that you NOT buy this product,
Not talking ethics. . .talking obedience to God's laws. . .I leave the "ethics" of them to God.but how would you know it, without the Voice? Look it up in Scripture?
Law-based ethics is absurd because it requires all knowledge to get it right.
This sounds like Looney-Tunes. . .In part, the written law is a crutch for we who are not in close touch with the Voice (read this as spiritual immaturity). It's better than nothing, in many cases.
And so now we've migrated to driving being a necessary matter of conscience.You're speaking gibberish. You've accomplished literally zilch in the way of explaining how human life and existence can function without feelings of certainty. You wouldn't even drive a car, buy a house, go to church (etc, etc, etc,) without some degree of certainty about the possible benefits.
My response is more Biblical.
God's purpose is found in His word, not in speculation that contradicts God's word! Given that God desires all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4), our God of grace does not create any men for the purpose of relegating them to the lake of fire! That would be satanic (2 Corithians 4:4). Ditch the fatalism/determinism which exalts itself above the knowledge of God (i.e. word of God)! Just because God can do something, doesn't mean that He does that. Again, God's word says that He desires all men to be saved - thus He does not relegate any to hell. Your error stems from believing that God scripts everything - when in fact God has left man's decisions up to man.But just how much spiritual sentience do you attribute to the spiritually dead, to claim it is not fair for God to create them for ultimate destruction for God's own purposes?
The Gospel is not just replete with Grace. It IS Grace. There is nothing to it that is not Grace. Do you not understand that it is to God's glory and redeemed man's growth that most are relegated to the Lake of Fire? The Body of Christ, and the Dwelling Place of God, is THAT AMAZING when the sons of God are revealed, that in spite of whatever "love" can validly be assessed as basic toward those who have from birth hated God and thoroughly deserve his sentence of death upon them —oh, yes! It is definitely worth it, and altogether just.
You are going to scream, "NOT FAIR!", at God's mercy toward those he chose to be the members of the Bride of Christ???
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