How The Sabbath [Saturday] Became Sacred Before Sin

[VictorC]

Amen...

Hence we agree that the ten commandments has lost its jurisdiction over God's redeemed.

You missed this one...

The fact that the Gentiles do things according to the Law even though they were never given the Law tells us the Law is part of man's very being since we are created in God's image.

You selected the wrong verbal tense.
The Gentiles didn't do things according to the law, but rather they did things according to the law before the new covenant existed. During that time, they were still "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world" as Ephesians 2:12 described them.

Having "the work of the law written in their hearts" during the dispensation of the first covenant shows that the covenant from Mount Sinai wasn't God's "My law" that He promised He would write into the hearts and minds of Judah and Israel with a new covenant. The Gentiles were disqualified because they were outside the tribes of Israel, and they were lost even with the law you identified as the ten commandments written into their hearts.

How is it that those with the ten commandments written into their hearts were lost without salvation?
Galatians 4:30 answered that when it explained why we are to cast off the covenant from Mount Sinai: "the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman". Those remaining in the first covenant have no promise of eternal life.

The last six commandments are part of everyone but the first four have to be taught because they have to do with God of Whom we are dead to until we come alive to God through Jesus.

"The last six commandments" is a reference to the covenant from Mount Sinai, the ten commandments. Those remaining in that covenant are concluded "guilty before God" and have no promise of eternal life.

God uses aspects marriage as a picture of our relationship with Him but does that do away with marriage? In the same way God uses the aspects of the Sabbath as a picture of the kingdom of God but that does not do away with the Sabbath.

Comparing the sabbath to marriage that was ordained in the creation account isn't a comparison at all. "In the same way" is speculation on your part with no Scriptural support.

Why do you bother preaching lawlessness because anyone in their right mind who are being led by the Spirit will never accept a gospel of lawlessness.

Why do you bother to preach another gospel of lawlessness that has no promise of eternal life? After all, claiming that the sabbath retained jurisdiction past the covenant that contained it doesn't make you compliant with that ordinance. It merely concludes you "guilty before God" with no promise of eternal life, as you are just as lawless as those who have left the shadow to enter God's "My rest".

nor will they accept a works salvation

This is the reason the majority of Christians have no trouble concluding Adventism's claim to the inspiration of Ellen White to be false, since she preached a works "salvation" when she wrote "It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord" in {6T 356.4}.

 

[Pythons]

Amen...

It was the kingdom of antichrist who changed the day God blessed and sanctifed, not God.

Keep up the good fight of faith even if it falls on deaf ears.

Ellen said that prior to the earth being created everything was in perfect subjection and harmony with the law of God.....
....Which equates to the Sabbath being added later and NOT part of God's law spoken of prior to the creation of the world.

Evidently God can add and take away ANY law He wants....
....Which makes sense because He is God.

 

[Laodicean]

Originally Posted by k4c

You missed this one...

The fact that the Gentiles do things according to the Law even though they were never given the Law tells us the Law is part of man's very being since we are created in God's image.
​

You selected the wrong verbal tense.

no, he did not. He quoted scripture.

YOU have selected the wrong verbal tense and are trying to promote it as truth.

The Gentiles didn't do things according to the law, but rather they did things according to the law before the new covenant existed.

Victor, you are changing the words of scripture. It says "do' not "did." Go as far back as the Greek/English translation, and it says "do." You are also adding to scripture with your "before the new covenant existed."

You really need to stop twisting words in order to make your point.

 

[VictorC]

no, he did not. He quoted scripture.

YOU have selected the wrong verbal tense and are trying to promote it as truth.

Victor, you are changing the words of scripture. It says "do' not "did." Go as far back as the Greek/English translation, and it says "do." You are also adding to scripture with your "before the new covenant existed."

You really need to stop twisting words in order to make your point.

Look at the context of Romans 2: 15 again:

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them.

What is the tense of the word "written"? When was this "written" apparent in the tenure of the first covenant?

That's right.
It is past tense.
You twisted Scripture in order to avoid the point that the ten commandments weren't written into anyone's heart of mind as a promise contained in the new covenant. The Gentiles continuing to "do" in the present tense still left them in a position of perishing without the law as verse 12 showed, even though they had the working of the law in their heart, already identified as the ten commandments by k4c.

 

[k4c]

Look at the context of Romans 2: 15 again:

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them.

What is the tense of the word "written"? When was this "written" apparent in the tenure of the first covenant?

That's right.
It is past tense.
You twisted Scripture in order to avoid the point that the ten commandments weren't written into anyone's heart of mind as a promise contained in the new covenant. The Gentiles continuing to "do" in the present tense still left them in a position of perishing without the law as verse 12 showed, even though they had the working of the law in their heart, already identified as the ten commandments by k4c.

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them

Notice how it says, BY NATURE. In other words, it's part of their being to do things contained in the Law. This does't mean they are right with God it only verifies that we are all created in God's image and since the Law reflects God's nature it only goes to say that we, who are made in God's image will, by our very nature, do things contained in the Law. The only thing that will be lacking will be the worship of God according to how He desires to be worshiped. This is where the first four words written in stone comes in.

Now let me clarify the words you put in my mouth.

You say that I believe the Ten Commandments are part of the old covenant, this is very true. But I also say they are part of the new covenant as well. The difference bewteen the two covenants is found in our motives and our relationship.

The old covenant was motived by fear, sin and death. Under the new covenant the motive is peace, love and life. The two covenants have different terms with the same content.

The Ten Commandments were written in stone, why? Because of transgression. This means the people were transgressing God's Law before they were written in stone. This confirms Romans 2 in that by nature we have God's Law in us but we break it by nature also. God then makes a covenant using the very nature He created us in as the content. With this covenant He is saying, "Live up to how I created you or you would live at all". Under the new covenant Jesus fulfilled the living up to the standard of the old covenant terms. He now becomes our righteousness. He is now abile to gives us His Spirit who will in turn empower us to live up to the same standard. The good news is that since Jesus is our righteousness our motive for keeping the commandments are different and our relationship with God and His Law changes.

This is all so very simple. But you know what? Just like what I say about prisons, there will always be someone to put there in the same way the lake of fire is.

 

[VictorC]

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them

Notice how it says, BY NATURE. In other words, it's part of their being to do things contained in the Law. This does't mean they are right with God it only verifies that we are all created in God's image and since the Law reflects God's nature it only goes to say that we, who are made in God's image will, by our very nature, do things contained in the Law. The only thing that will be lacking will be the worship of God according to how He desires to be worshiped. This is where the first four words written in stone comes in.

Now let me clarify the words you put in my mouth.

You say that I believe the Ten Commandments are part of the old covenant, this is very true. But I also say they are part of the new covenant as well. The difference bewteen the two covenants is found in our motives and our relationship.

The old covenant was motived by fear, sin and death. Under the new covenant the motive is peace, love and life. The two covenants have different terms with the same content.

The Ten Commandments were written in stone, why? Because of transgression. This means the people were transgressing God's Law before they were written in stone. This confirms Romans 2 in that by nature we have God's Law in us but we break it by nature also. God then makes a covenant using the very nature He created us in as the content. With this covenant He is saying, "Live up to how I created you or you would live at all". Under the new covenant Jesus fulfilled the living up to the standard of the old covenant terms. He now becomes our righteousness. He is now abile to gives us His Spirit who will in turn empower us to live up to the same standard. The good news is that since Jesus is our righteousness our motive for keeping the commandments are different and our relationship with God and His Law changes.

This is all so very simple. But you know what? Just like what I say about prisons, there will always be someone to put there in the same way the lake of fire is.

I'm not sure that you're aware of what you have posted, and of the concessions you have already made. You already stated that the ten commandments have been anulled, meaning they don't retain jurisdiction over us. You stated that when you wrote "Amen" and agreed with Isaiah's prophecy.

You also proved to yourself that the ten commandments aren't the law written into anyone's heart or mind as a promise in the new covenant, since it was already written into the hearts of the Gentiles before the new covenant existed.

Now you're claiming that there was transgression to the law before the law existed, in complete deference to what Romans 4:15, which states "for where there is no law there is no transgression". You have gone into a state of mind where your posts aren't even coherent of what you have written, nor what Scripture states. They have devolved into meaningless speculative drivel that has nothing to support it, and I can see more contradictions to Scripture that I haven't commented on. On top of all of this, you have never answered the very first question that I posed to you:

Why does Jesus refer to the sabbath as a separate entity from the seventh day?

Are you ever going to answer this question, and write something cognizant of the posts that appear in this thread?
Beating a path to the lake of fire is not the intent you should embark on.

 

[k4c]

VictorC; I'm not sure that you're aware of what you have posted, and of the concessions you have already made. You already stated that the ten commandments have been anulled, meaning they don't retain jurisdiction over us. You stated that when you wrote "Amen" and agreed with Isaiah's prophecy.

I think you like coming to wrong conclusions because you do it with me and the Bible.

I never said the Ten Commandments were anulled and neither did Jesus.

You also proved to yourself that the ten commandments aren't the law written into anyone's heart or mind as a promise in the new covenant, since it was already written into the hearts of the Gentiles before the new covenant existed.

Just because they do some things contained in the Law does not mean they are right with God. When God writes the Law on stone in our hearts we will not only do just some of the things contained in the Law we will do them all.

Now you're claiming that there was transgression to the law before the law existed, in complete deference to what Romans 4:15, which states "for where there is no law there is no transgression". You have gone into a state of mind where your posts aren't even coherent of what you have written, nor what Scripture states. They have devolved into meaningless speculative drivel that has nothing to support it, and I can see more contradictions to Scripture that I haven't commented on. On top of all of this, you have never answered the very first question that I posed to you:

I live in a residential area with a lot of children. I see people speeding down my street all the time so I requested a speed limit sign be posted that states 25mph. Before the sign was posted people were doing things wrong but there was no law to hold them accountable but now that it has been posted they are now accountable and are now being found guilty.

Why does Jesus refer to the sabbath as a separate entity from the seventh day?

Are you ever going to answer this question, and write something cognizant of the posts that appear in this thread?

This is a question you made up to support your theroy, which is not founded in the words or life of Jesus thus there is no answer to give.

Beating a path to the lake of fire is not the intent you should embark on.

The path is made when one preaches grace as a means to lawlessness when in fact the Bible says just the oposite.

You have a twisted version of truth that steers people away from the only standard that defines godly love and true holiness.

Keep studying and maybe God will grant you repentance.

 

[VictorC]

I never said the Ten Commandments were anulled and neither did Jesus.

Are you now claiming that you never wrote this?

Perhaps this is why Isaiah described the first covenant as a "covenant with death", and prophesied "Your covenant with death will be annulled" in Isaiah 28:18. This was fulfilled, as described in Hebrews 7:18-19.

Amen...

You claimed that the ten commandments was anulled, as promised through Isaiah and confirmed through the author of Hebrews. Now you conveniently forgot what you wrote.

Just because they do some things contained in the Law does not mean they are right with God. When God writes the Law on stone in our hearts we will not only do just some of the things contained in the Law we will do them all.

Have you forgotten that you also wrote this?

Jeremiah 31:32 and Hebrews 8:9 disqualify the law from Mount Sinai from the new covenant, and Romans 2:15 demonstrates that the former law wasn't a new covenant promise. These have been shown to you. Repeating the same point in direct contradiction to Scripture demonstrates after it has been shown to you demonstrates a devotion to error.

Romans 2:15 is referring to the Ten Commandments.

Romans 2:14-15 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things contained in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise. Consistent with Jeremiah and the author of Hebrews, God's "My law" is written into our hearts and minds, and you have made no effort to determine what "My law" refers to - even though you never responded to my post showing Who it refers to. You have proven that it doesn't refer to the ten commandments, and you can't help but contradict what you wrote in your earlier posts.

I live in a residential area with a lot of children. I see people speeding down my street all the time so I requested a speed limit sign be posted that states 25mph. Before the sign was posted people were doing things wrong but there was no law to hold them accountable but now that it has been posted they are now accountable and are now being found guilty.

That is the definition of transgression, an entity separate from sin - and this distinction has been pointed out to you at least a dozen times. You still have not found forgiveness of transgression contained in the law and you never will, as the law knows only atonement by blood as a means of reconciliation.

Why does Jesus refer to the sabbath as a separate entity from the seventh day?

This is a question you made up to support your theroy, which is not founded in the words or life of Jesus thus there is no answer to give.

That question was presented with plenty of Scriptural evidence showing that the seventh day is consistently delineated from the sabbath. Are you claiming that you can't remember anything posted today, in addition to what you have posted in the recent past from your own keyboard? And, do you expect me to accept that as an excuse for your inability to answer it?

The path is made when one preaches grace as a means to lawlessness when in fact the Bible says just the oposite.

This is hopeless when you attempt to reconcile it to the lawless "another gospel" you have posted here with a sabbath nowhere compliant with the law. Remember, you are as lawless as anyone else, and that was God's conclusion from which He offered no appeal.

You have a twisted version of truth that steers people away from the only standard that defines godly love and true holiness.

This coming from someone incognizant of what he has posted and what Scripture concludes is relegated to more mindless drivel.

Keep studying and maybe God will grant you repentance.

This coming from someone who does not show any interest in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is also relegated to mindless drivel.

Please provide an answer to my initial question. Why does Jesus refer to the sabbath as a separate entity from the seventh day? If you can't remember how this question was reached, you bear the responsibility to scroll back into the thread to where you exibited the same confusion as dragNdrop has.

 

[k4c]

Are you now claiming that you never wrote this?

You claimed that the ten commandments was anulled, as promised through Isaiah and confirmed through the author of Hebrews. Now you conveniently forgot what you wrote.

Have you forgotten that you also wrote this?

This is an admission that the ten commandments wasn't a new covenant promise, and you concede that it isn't written into anyone's heart and mind as a new covenant promise. Consistent with Jeremiah and the author of Hebrews, God's "My law" is written into our hearts and minds, and you have made no effort to determine what "My law" refers to - even though you never responded to my post showing Who it refers to. You have proven that it doesn't refer to the ten commandments, and you can't help but contradict what you wrote in your earlier posts.

That is the definition of transgression, an entity separate from sin - and this distinction has been pointed out to you at least a dozen times. You still have not found forgiveness of transgression contained in the law and you never will, as the law knows only atonement by blood as a means of reconciliation.

That question was presented with plenty of Scriptural evidence showing that the seventh day is consistently delineated from the sabbath. Are you claiming that you can't remember anything posted today, in addition to what you have posted in the recent past from your own keyboard? And, do you expect me to accept that as an excuse for your inability to answer it?

This is hopeless when you attempt to reconcile it to the lawless "another gospel" you have posted here with a sabbath nowhere compliant with the law. Remember, you are as lawless as anyone else, and that was God's conclusion from which He offered no appeal.

This coming from someone incognizant of what he has posted and what Scripture concludes is relegated to more mindless drivel.

This coming from someone who does not show any interest in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is also relegated to mindless drivel.

Please provide an answer to my initial question. Why does Jesus refer to the sabbath as a separate entity from the seventh day? If you can't remember how this question was reached, you bear the responsibility to scroll back into the thread to where you exibited the same confusion as dragNdrop has.

You twist...

You put words in the mouth of people...

You reject everything that is said when it doesn't fit into your self proclaimed belief system...

You lead people to your own conclusions that are not based on the replies you've received...

You say we are not answering your questions based on the fact that you reject the answers you get...

I can't waste anymore time spinning my wheels.

Maybe someoen else can step in because I'm done here.

 

[VictorC]

I can't waste anymore time spinning my wheels.

If you can't remember what you have posted, all you have done is spin your wheels.

 

[dragNdrop]

Okay.... I hear what the likes of VictorC have been saying in this thread i.e that Godonly blessed the first Saturday and not all. --- However look at the following:

Gen 2:3 "...God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it..."
Exod 20:11b "...wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it..."

Why doe not a text say something like "...wherefore the LORD blessed that sabbath day, and hallowed it..." ?

It seems like there is some slack in reasoning there... Am I missing something ?

 

[Joe67]

Okay.... I hear what the likes of VictorC have been saying in this thread i.e that Godonly blessed the first Saturday and not all. --- However look at the following:

Gen 2:3 "...God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it..."
Exod 20:11b "...wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it..."

Why doe not a text say something like "...wherefore the LORD blessed that sabbath day, and hallowed it..." ?

It seems like there is some slack in reasoning there... Am I missing something ?

dNd,

Let us consider another hallowing.

Ex 3:4-6
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. KJV

Holiness is not inherent. The presence of God brings holiness. The presence of God brings to us the same experience that was brought to Moses.

True Sabbath observance will lead us to cover our face as we fear to look upon God. The true worship of Jesus will lead us to fear to look upon God, but we can see the glory of God shining in the face of the man Jesus Christ.

Ex 33:20
20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. KJV

Isa 52:14
14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: KJV

Isa 53:2
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Okay.... I hear what the likes of VictorC have been saying in this thread

Ouch.

i.e that Godonly blessed the first Saturday and not all.

This is not my position. God sanctified the seventh day for holy use. That use was instituted when it was needed. According to Exodus 34, it was needed after the children of Israel were delivered from Egypt as a reminder of their source of rest from slavery. We have no record of any human setting it aside until Exodus 16. We could make guesses if you want, but that wouldn't make them established fact.

--- However look at the following:

Gen 2:3 "...God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it..."
Exod 20:11b "...wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it..."

Why doe not a text say something like "...wherefore the LORD blessed that sabbath day, and hallowed it..." ?

You left out an important phrase: "And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making." The passage clearly defines which seventh day it is addressing.

Am I missing something ?

Yes, I think you might be. But that's OK. I miss things all the time.

BFA

 

[Pythons]

Has anyone ever considered that God's perfect creation itself caused the Sabbath...
...Everything God did was absolutely perfect with nothing lacking and since there was nothing lacking.
...The Sabbath day was the "ceasing rest" and God intended man to live IN IT permanently.
...The weeds and thorns came ONLY after sin therefore the Sabbath was made for man.
...Simply because man was walking around prior to the ceasing rest.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Has anyone ever considered that God's perfect creation itself caused the Sabbath...
...Everything God did was absolutely perfect with nothing lacking and since there was nothing lacking.
...The Sabbath day was the "ceasing rest" and God intended man to live IN IT permanently.
...The weeds and thorns came ONLY after sin therefore the Sabbath was made for man.
...Simply because man was walking around prior to the ceasing rest.

That would work if we didn't have the direct comparison made from God's work vs mans work and God's rest vs mans rest in Exodus 20:9-11

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:


But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Joe67]

Has anyone ever considered that God's perfect creation itself caused the Sabbath...
...Everything God did was absolutely perfect with nothing lacking and since there was nothing lacking.
...The Sabbath day was the "ceasing rest" and God intended man to live IN IT permanently.
...The weeds and thorns came ONLY after sin therefore the Sabbath was made for man.
...Simply because man was walking around prior to the ceasing rest.

Python's,

I believe there is some value in what you are witnessing in this post. Please post a little more of this picture of which you are speaking.

The fruit of a work comes at the end and it is stored in a safe place. Our Lord is preparing a place/house for us.

John 15:16-17
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another. KJV

This is eternal sabbath rest, when we love one another.

Little children are not given the gift of fruit bearing. They do not know what to ask of the Father in Jesus' name; nevertheless they are children of God by Jesus Christ and draw the milk from the breast while they live with the bond woman and they have known the Father.

Ishmael was a son of Abram. He knew his father and was circumcised with his father, Abraham. He was not the called seed. "In Isaac shall thy seed be called." The Sovereign Lord "calls those things that are not, as though they were."

Gen 21:11-13
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Has anyone ever considered that God's perfect creation itself caused the Sabbath...
...Everything God did was absolutely perfect with nothing lacking and since there was nothing lacking.
...The Sabbath day was the "ceasing rest" and God intended man to live IN IT permanently.
...The weeds and thorns came ONLY after sin therefore the Sabbath was made for man.
...Simply because man was walking around prior to the ceasing rest.

Yes. This is how I view it as well.

Further, there came a time when Israelites -- after an extended period of captivity -- needed a more structured reminder of permanent rest that God intended. For them, the sabbath was not only a reminder of our ultimate source of rest but also a reminder of the deliverer who brougth them out of Egypt.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

Yes. This is how I view it as well.

Further, there came a time when Israelites -- after an extended period of captivity -- needed a more structured reminder of permanent rest that God intended. For them, the sabbath was not only a reminder of our ultimate source of rest but also a reminder of the deliverer who brougth them out of Egypt.

BFA

BFA,

It is good to remember, but to what goal/purpose?

Without purpose, remembering is like an ingrown toenail.

Joe

 

[dragNdrop]

The problem with the non-Sabbatharians like /joey67, BFA, etc is that they d not clearly state their case about what they believe on a Sabbath.

Why don't u guys state your case clearly about Genesi 2:2-3 ?


As for BFA,

"

i.e that Godonly blessed the first Saturday and not all.
​

This is not my position. "

Of cause this is your position because you latter added,

"You left out an important phrase: "And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making." The passage clearly defines which seventh day it is addressing."

U see that u are implying that God was only blessing the Saturday on which he had rested only (first Saturday) ? U do not see the Saturday on which He rested as representing all Saturdays ?

 

[Pythons]

Python's,

I believe there is some value in what you are witnessing in this post. Please post a little more of this picture of which you are speaking.

The fruit of a work comes at the end and it is stored in a safe place. Our Lord is preparing a place/house for us.

John 15:16-17
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

17 These things I command you, that ye love one another. KJV

This is eternal sabbath rest, when we love one another.

Little children are not given the gift of fruit bearing. They do not know what to ask of the Father in Jesus' name; nevertheless they are children of God by Jesus Christ and draw the milk from the breast while they live with the bond woman and they have known the Father.

Ishmael was a son of Abram. He knew his father and was circumcised with his father, Abraham. He was not the called seed. "In Isaac shall thy seed be called." The Sovereign Lord "calls those things that are not, as though they were."

Gen 21:11-13
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.

12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

13And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. KJV

Joe

The Jewish understanding of the fall is that Adam and Eve were expelled out of Eden the very day they were created....
....They never "entered God's Rest".
....This is Rosh Hashanah 101.

God had spent a period of time, be it epochs or literal days, in making a perfect place for Adam and Eve to live...
...Only specific animals, trees & plants were placed in the Garden.
...Adam and Eve sin and they are ejected "out" of God's grace.
...It is only at this point Adam and Eve are required to "work".

Genesis 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Strong's Word Sorrow H6093 has a very clear meaning; being pain / labor / hardship and toil....
...None of which Adam or Eve were ever exposed to prior to sin.
...If Eden was a literal area than Adam and Eve were expelled.
...And the new ground they would live in would spring forth thorns, weeds, etc.

The Scripture states Adam would be required to "toil" ALL the days of his life....
...In the Exodus God gives His chosen people a small taste of the Sabbath by proving food from heaven.

And in all truth no one kept the Sabbath prior to Moses.