How the Hajj changed Malcolm X

[sur]

BUMP
You didn't acknowledge your mistake. Instead you go off making another unverified claim.
When I ask you about this, you go off again asking me another question.

i made no mistake. u clearly said "Black Muslims" u didn't say "Nation-of-Islam". These r totally different things.

When u say "Black Muslims" how am i supposed to understand it as "Nation-of-islam"!!!
Here's what u said.

I've met Moslems on these threads who don't think "Black Moslems" are really Moslems

Well, typical. You don't answer me, but go one with asking me a question.

where it says that question can't be answered with a question???

when u r wrong, it's better to bring ur attention towards that mistake of yours than wasting time trying to shove explanations into ur head not capable of understanding simple things.

"Racisim" can be taught, through socialising processes such as education, and religion.

So, when you provide your statistics, you MAY want to factor these things in.

Still waiting!

I said ratio of racism is down & u asked what the ratio is. What a stupid question. Have u been living in some jungle outside sydney all these 40 years??? or may be in ur town racism is still as high so u didn't understand what i meant by that.!!!

If u r so fond of stats why don't u google it, or ask any one ur age who had his eyes open & wasn't living in dreams. Here's one for starters.
& another one.
& this one might satisfy ur hunger for past & present racism situation.

 

[Rasta]

No i am not racist. U mis-understood me like u mis-understood Malcom-X.
U r calling "reaction" of black towards racist attitude as being "racist". U should understand that Malcom was just pointing out racist attitude , he was not being racist himself. He was speaking against it.

Like Malcom, I was just pointing out that white ppl(not all of course) do have racist attitude which express itself time-&-again. In past it was overwhelming , now ratio is down but still it's not completely wiped out.

Anyone that judges the character of another person (for good or bad) based soley on skin color is racist.

Did I say Malcom had no reason to be racist? No, he had all the reasons in the world. That doesn't make it ok, or justifiable to say "the white attitude" this or "the white attitude" that.

If you judge based on skin color, that's wrong.

Are Jews justified at putting Germans in gas chambers? Your logic/methodology would seem to say yes.

Though I suspect your "methodology" is formed around a certain argument that you want to reinforce.

 

[Montalban]

i made no mistake. u clearly said "Black Muslims" u didn't say "Nation-of-Islam". These r totally different things.

No. They're not. The Nation of Islam is often called "Black Muslims"

Not I never said black Muslims but Black Muslims.

I've evidenced this with reference to where the Nation of Islam are called Black Muslims!

When u say "Black Muslims" how am i supposed to understand it as "Nation-of-islam"!!!
Here's what u said.

Here's what I said...

I've met Moslems on these threads who don't think "Black Moslems" are really Moslems

Notice the capital "B"?

where it says that question can't be answered with a question???

It's for another question.

when u r wrong, it's better to bring ur attention towards that mistake of yours than wasting time trying to shove explanations into ur head not capable of understanding simple things.

You've been given an opportunity here to admit your mistake. But instead you've gone on with it

You have shown now, publically how you deal with such things.

I said "Black" with a capital "B".

I then evidenced where they're called "Black Muslims"

and you still won't admit your error.

Well done! You've done more to destroy your own credibility than I could have done

 

[Montalban]

Sur, there's still a chance to redeem yourself here and admit your error. It should have been all laughed off the moment I gave you evidence.

 

[Museveni]

Fail to see how he made a mistake just cuase you got names mixed up. Either way Malcom X renounced Nation of Islam after he'd been to Mecca and realized that Racism got no foundation in Islam. You forgot to quote that little piece from your article.

 

[Montalban]

Fail to see how he made a mistake just cuase you got names mixed up.

Here's what I said...

That’s what I was referring to. Malcolm X was associated with this.
Malcolm X (born Malcolm Little; May 19, 1925 – February 21, 1965), also known as El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz,[1] was an American Black Muslim minister and a one-time spokesman for the Nation of Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X

Your misunderstanding is that you assumed I meant “No black person can be a proper Moslem” which is not what I said.
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_muslim#Black_Muslims

Why you want to post to now join in advertising youself as one who ignores evidence, is up to you.

That he renounced them has nothing to do with this point at all!

 

[Museveni]

Nation of Islam is Black Muslim. As a matter of fact its the only organisation that uses the term and it is also a known fact that Nation of Islam isnt that Muslims to begin with just like Aryan Nation or the KKK isnt a good examples of Christianity even though both a registered churches.

Besides if you want to play that game we can bring up people like Melosevic and asorted other people who profess Orthodox Christianity and have done some of the worsts things in history. Have absolutly no doubt that you'll try to find excuses for trying to prove that these people aren't True Orthodox(tm).

 

[Montalban]

Nation of Islam is Black Muslim.

I don't argue against this! The problem is you're defending Sur who made a mistake in assuming that when I wrote "Black Moslem" he thought I referred to blacks who are Moslem!

That's why I'm so astounded that you would want to sweep in here and defend his mistake!

Besides if you want to play that game we can bring up people like Melosevic and asorted other people who profess Orthodox Christianity and have done some of the worsts things in history. Have absolutly no doubt that you'll try to find excuses for trying to prove that these people aren't True Orthodox(tm).

That's got nothing to do with what's been said here. I would suggest you start from post #1

My initial point was that I know some Moslems who don't consider "Black Moslems" to be Moslems. He assumed that I was saying "Moslems don't cosider black people to be Moslem".

And to prove my point, here's one Moslem advice-site...

"The Muslim must realize that these sects – such as the group mentioned (see question* - Montalban), and the Qadianis, Baha’is and other misguided groups – were only established to fight Islam and lead its people away from it. It does not take much effort to demonstrate that they are misguided and false. The Muslim should beware of them and warn other Muslims against these misguided groups. "
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=10032&ln=eng

(*the question calls them "psuedo islamic sects")

You can continue to miss the point if you wish

 

[SedjmNeter]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

This is common knowledge I thought.

Obviously not. Show and prove why U think Malcolm X was a racist. Eye'm not attacking U Rasta, lets keep it simple, U think Malcolm X was a racist eye'm asking why U think that.

SHEM HETEP

 

[Rasta]

P.E.A.C.E and Blessings...

This is common knowledge I thought.

Obviously not. Show and prove why U think Malcolm X was a racist. Eye'm not attacking U Rasta, lets keep it simple, U think Malcolm X was a racist eye'm asking why U think that.

SHEM HETEP

The reason I say this is because he judges others based on the color of their skin. Instead of saying "racist attitude" he says "white attitude". Equating racism to the color of skin. Yes their were a lot of white racists then, but generalizing a behavior that you associate with skin color is racist.

Now imagine if a white person today did the same as Malcom. Calling some behavior a "black attitude".

 

[Montalban]

I'll have to agree with Rasta on this, I always understood that it was common knowledge that Malcolm X was a racist.

 

[indianx]

He is generally acknowledged to have been a racist during his time with the NOI, but his rift with Elijah Muhammad caused him to re-examine his beliefs and the beliefs of the NOI. This was around the time he went to Mecca and his experiences there, particularly seeing white men and women praying alongside black ones, inspired a change in his beliefs.

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I am not a racist.... In the past I permitted myself to be used...to make sweeping indictments of all white people, the entire white race and these generalizations have caused injuries to some whites who perhaps did not deserve to be hurt. Because of the spiritual enlightenment which I was blessed to receive as a result of my recent pilgrimage to the Holy city of Mecca, I no longer subscribe to sweeping indictments of any one race. I am now striving to live the life of a true...Muslim. I must repeat that I am not a racist nor do I subscribe to the tenants of racism. I can state in all sincerity that I wish nothing but freedom, justice and equality, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all people."[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Montalban]

I think the whole idea of the Black Moslem movement was based on a racist, and mistaken view of history.

The idea being that they were all Moslem in their native lands (that is, their ancestors were) and that Christian oppressors took their ancestors away and forced them to give up Islam.

I have no problem with the fact that they were oppressed, but they were often sold to white slavers by coastal (and native) tribes

 

[Nooj]

He is generally acknowledged to have been a racist during his time with the NOI, but his rift with Elijah Muhammad caused him to re-examine his beliefs and the beliefs of the NOI. This was around the time he went to Mecca and his experiences there, particularly seeing white men and women praying alongside black ones, inspired a change in his beliefs.

Yes, what many people forget is that racists can change:

In an interview with Gordon Parks in 1965, Malcolm revealed:

"I realized racism isn't just a black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another. Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant — the one who wanted to help the [Black] Muslims and the whites get together — and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a [Black] Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then — like all [Black] Muslims — I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years. That was a bad scene, brother. The sickness and madness of those days — I'm glad to be free of them."

 

[Montalban]

Why'd you link the word Zombie?

 

[Nooj]

Wasn't me, Wikipedia did it. Those silly editors, as if anyone doesn't know what a zombie is.

 

[Montalban]

Everyone knows it's a drink!

 

[plmarquette]

I've met Moslems on these threads who don't think "Black Moslems" are really Moslems

there are some problems with the Nation of Islam and main line Moslem doctrine ... not the fact that one is black, red, yellow, white of skin ...

it is also a unique spin that Abraham came fro Ur of the Chaldees ... North Africa ... and the garden of Eden is now thought to be close to Babylon in Iraq... and perhaps the curse of cain is caucasian coloring ... which would cause cain to stick out in sea of brown and black people ..

 

[MercuryAndy]

He was part of the Nation of Islam. He didn't think black people and white people should live together. He went to Africa and saw it was very happy and decided against his previous views. He came back to America and then the Nation of Islam had him killed.

So to be honest its pretty conclusive what happened.

 

[Montalban]

there are some problems with the Nation of Islam and main line Moslem doctrine ... not the fact that one is black, red, yellow, white of skin ...

it is also a unique spin that Abraham came fro Ur of the Chaldees ... North Africa ... and the garden of Eden is now thought to be close to Babylon in Iraq... and perhaps the curse of cain is caucasian coloring ... which would cause cain to stick out in sea of brown and black people ..

Never did I say Moslems have problems with Moslems who are black. Although there's racisim in the teachings of Muhammed.