How The Devil Ties the Evangelicals..?

[Mytheodos]

Father Epiphanios Theodoropoulos

[FONT=verdana,geneva]
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[FONT=verdana,geneva]Once he was asked:[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]«Elder, it is known that peace reigns only ίn the soul of people of God. However, the Evangelicals also maintain that they feel a permanent calmness ίn their hearts. How is it possible for this to occur, since they are ίn delusion?[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]And he responded:[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]«In the villages, my child, when the villagers wish to tie their donkey for grazing, it is not necessary to tie it by all four feet. It suffices to tie it by one.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]The devil does the same thing with the Evangelicals. Since he has tied them by the foot of heresy, he does not attack them with other temptations. Thus, it is explained why they feel peace, as they maintain. However, this peace is superficial and temporal.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva](Father Epiphanios)
[/FONT]

 

[Dorothea]

Interesting info. Thanks for sharing.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

How do we really know what level of peace a Protestant feels? Many Protestants, though they believe in sola fide, struggle to please Christ and fight their demons be they addictions, temptations, despair, or other sins. I think it's dangerous to brand people and make big assumptions about the spiritual state of others. I'm sure there are Orthodox Christians who get overconfident in the sacraments and think the behavioral component doesn't matter. How many people NEVER miss vespers or divine liturgy or sixth hour prayers or royal hours, every single ritual, and yet never feed the hungry, never donate their time, never visit the infirm, never clothe the naked, never help the addict, etc.? Trying to figure out the spiritual state of others is fruitless.

I find it FAR more helpful to follow the advice of Father Thomas a Kempis, who wrote The Imitation of Christ....he advises us to assume that EVERYONE ELSE is a righteous, holy, Godly person and WE are the sinners....far wiser if you ask me.

 

[MKJ]

How do we really know what level of peace a Protestant feels? Many Protestants, though they believe in sola fide, struggle to please Christ and fight their demons be they addictions, temptations, despair, or other sins. I think it's dangerous to brand people and make big assumptions about the spiritual state of others. I'm sure there are Orthodox Christians who get overconfident in the sacraments and think the behavioral component doesn't matter. How many people NEVER miss vespers or divine liturgy or sixth hour prayers or royal hours, every single ritual, and yet never feed the hungry, never donate their time, never visit the infirm, never clothe the naked, never help the addict, etc.? Trying to figure out the spiritual state of others is fruitless.

I find it FAR more helpful to follow the advice of Father Thomas a Kempis, who wrote The Imitation of Christ....he advises us to assume that EVERYONE ELSE is a righteous, holy, Godly person and WE are the sinners....far wiser if you ask me.

I tend to think this is good advice.

But, my impression reading the OP was that he may have been answering a specific question. Along the lines of "if people feel they have the peace of the lord, who are you ( or the Orthodox Church or whatever) to say they are in heresy/their church teaches wrongly/they don't have sacraments?

I think in that kind of context it seems less like a matter of trying to denigrate others faith and more as a warning that feelings aren't always the best guide to truth.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

True

I tend to think this is good advice.

But, my impression reading the OP was that he may have been answering a specific question. Along the lines of "if people feel they have the peace of the lord, who are you ( or the Orthodox Church or whatever) to say they are in heresy/their church teaches wrongly/they don't have sacraments?

I think in that kind of context it seems less like a matter of trying to denigrate others faith and more as a warning that feelings aren't always the best guide to truth.

 

[xenia]

In the movie The Island the main character, our hero, never felt any peace at all until the end of the movie. I know it's a movie but just being Orthodox doesn't mean your heart is always at rest.

 

[inconsequential]

What has been the personal experience of other converts here wrt this issue?

Comparing the spiritual warfare I experienced as an Evangelical to what I've experienced since becoming Orthodox would be like comparing college hazing to being beaten by bikers.

 

[beardedone]

Speaking as a convert, I can say that for me, the spiritual warfare is the same in regards to intensity--but it is different in how it comes at me. But I may be a bit of an oddity because I really was pretty much Orthodox even as a Protestant. I never felt right in Protestantism and a lot of the things I would ask and question, my reasons for doing so turned out to come from an Orthodox perspective. I actually think it is dangerous to try and place sweeping judgements on a whole segment of Christianity. Just because someone goes to a Protestant church does not mean their theology is completely screwed up. I know quite a few people who think far more like an Orthodox Christian than the denomination they belong to, but they won't leave their denomination because it is what they have known. I think sometimes we Orthodox need to take a step back from the judgement of non-Orthodox Christians and realize that there are a lot of people out there who really do have a great heart, even if they aren't Orthodox. And isn't the heart one of (if not the most) important parts of being in communion with God?

 

[ArmyMatt]

How do we really know what level of peace a Protestant feels? Many Protestants, though they believe in sola fide, struggle to please Christ and fight their demons be they addictions, temptations, despair, or other sins. I think it's dangerous to brand people and make big assumptions about the spiritual state of others. I'm sure there are Orthodox Christians who get overconfident in the sacraments and think the behavioral component doesn't matter. How many people NEVER miss vespers or divine liturgy or sixth hour prayers or royal hours, every single ritual, and yet never feed the hungry, never donate their time, never visit the infirm, never clothe the naked, never help the addict, etc.? Trying to figure out the spiritual state of others is fruitless.

I find it FAR more helpful to follow the advice of Father Thomas a Kempis, who wrote The Imitation of Christ....he advises us to assume that EVERYONE ELSE is a righteous, holy, Godly person and WE are the sinners....far wiser if you ask me.

well, the Elder is not talking about their overall spiritual state, he is talking about the peace they feel which keeps them evangelical, which keeps them from the true Church. what he said has nothing to do with charity or their salvation.

and, if you read his book, there were few folks more strict with their spiritual lives than he was.

 

[MariaRegina]

Father Epiphanios Theodoropoulos

[FONT=verdana,geneva]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana,geneva]Once he was asked:[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]«Elder, it is known that peace reigns only ίn the soul of people of God. However, the Evangelicals also maintain that they feel a permanent calmness ίn their hearts. How is it possible for this to occur, since they are ίn delusion?[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]And he responded:[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]«In the villages, my child, when the villagers wish to tie their donkey for grazing, it is not necessary to tie it by all four feet. It suffices to tie it by one.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]The devil does the same thing with the Evangelicals. Since he has tied them by the foot of heresy, he does not attack them with other temptations. Thus, it is explained why they feel peace, as they maintain. However, this peace is superficial and temporal.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva](Father Epiphanios)
[/FONT]

Thanks. That makes sense. This is probably why spiritual warfare is so intense when a Pentecostal Christian decides to become an Orthodox Christian. Obviously, the devil does not want that to happen.

Do you have the reference to this quote?

If it is online, I would love to read more.

If it is from a book, is it a new book? What is the title, and when was it published?

 

[John Constantine]

Father Epiphanios Theodoropoulos

[FONT=verdana,geneva]
[/FONT]​

[FONT=verdana,geneva]Once he was asked:[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana,geneva]«Elder, it is known that peace reigns only ίn the soul of people of God. However, the Evangelicals also maintain that they feel a permanent calmness ίn their hearts. How is it possible for this to occur, since they are ίn delusion?[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]And he responded:[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]«In the villages, my child, when the villagers wish to tie their donkey for grazing, it is not necessary to tie it by all four feet. It suffices to tie it by one.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva]The devil does the same thing with the Evangelicals. Since he has tied them by the foot of heresy, he does not attack them with other temptations. Thus, it is explained why they feel peace, as they maintain. However, this peace is superficial and temporal.[/FONT]

[FONT=verdana,geneva](Father Epiphanios)
[/FONT]

The devil manipulates each and everyone of us, only those that persevere will make it.

In my honest and humble opinion, it is impossible in our human state to ever have peace and calm in our hearts.

It is a daily struggle, if I don't look for Him and pray every and each day, it feels like life departs from me.

Paul said it better than anyone:
To live is Christ, to die is gain.

There is no such thing as peace in this life, only in Christ.

Peace.

 

[truefiction1]

The devil manipulates each and everyone of us, only those that persevere will make it.

In my honest and humble opinion, it is impossible in our human state to ever have peace and calm in our hearts.

It is a daily struggle, if I don't look for Him and pray every and each day, it feels like life departs from me.

Paul said it better than anyone:
To live is Christ, to die is gain.

There is no such thing as peace in this life, only in Christ.

Peace.

“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. http://www.esvbible.org/Jn14.1/Let not your hearts be troubled, neither http://www.esvbible.org/2Tm1.7/let them be afraid." (John 14:25-27)

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Maria, the book is called Counsels for Life. It's not at all new, I have a copy of it that was only reprinted a few years ago but it's a couple decades old I think. Google counsels for life Epiphanios and you should find it

 

[E.C.]

In the movie The Island the main character, our hero, never felt any peace at all until the end of the movie. I know it's a movie but just being Orthodox doesn't mean your heart is always at rest.

If anything being Orthodox means that finding peace is more difficult because the devil likes to attack the Orthodox with greater intensity than most other people. Or something like that.

I remember one time Fr. Philip, priest who chrismated me, once said, "Go with your gut because its the organ that God uses to speak to you". He's right. Most Protestants go with their hearts and feelings, but those can be very easily manipulated. Guts on the other hand take time to manipulate.

 

[Trogool]

Guts on the other hand take time to manipulate.

Couldn't resist looking up how to move guts for you. Literally.

Medscape: Medscape Access

Exposure of sigmoid colon and pelvis

Next, the patient is placed in a mild Trendelenburg position to facilitate exposure of the sigmoid colon and the pelvis. The small bowel is retracted upward and placed in the right upper quadrant to keep it out of the way. This is accomplished by wrapping the small bowel in a warm, moist towel and retracting it with one of the Bookwalter retractor blades.

The sigmoid colon is then mobilized. With the colon held in the surgeon’s left hand, the lateral peritoneal reflection (the white line of Toldt) is incised, and dissection is carried out proximal and distal to the affected area. To produce a tension-free colostomy, it is usually necessary to mobilize the descending colon and the sigmoid colon; the splenic flexure is not routinely mobilized.

In situations involving severe inflammation (eg, perforated diverticulitis), it is easier to start this maneuver in an area that is not inflamed and then move to the affected area. If visualization of adjacent structures is a problem, careful blunt finger dissection can usually be employed to separate the colon from the retroperitoneal structures safely.
At this point, the ureter must be identified. It can usually be found as it crosses over the aortic bifurcation. The gonadal vessels can be a helpful landmark: once they are identified, the ureter can usually be found slightly medial and deep to them. To confirm that the structure is the ureter, gently press on it with a pair of forceps; the ureter exhibits peristalsis when this is done. If the ureter is injured, every attempt should be made to identify and repair it intraoperatively. In most instances, this involves consultation with a urologist.

In a hostile abdomen, the ureter can be very difficult to identify. Ureteral stents can be placed to facilitate identification in such situations. Although it is clear that stent placement makes it easier to identify the ureter, whether this measure prevents injury remains controversial. Many surgeons place stents if the patient has previously undergone pelvic surgery, if the cancer is invading the retroperitoneum, or if the patient has severe diverticulitis.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Maria, the book is called Counsels for Life. It's not at all new, I have a copy of it that was only reprinted a few years ago but it's a couple decades old I think. Google counsels for life Epiphanios and you should find it

yeah, I own it too, it's a good one. there is a Greek priest I know who said that the Elder has a growing veneration.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

It is good, and yes he does. This book seems to be one of the ones everyone I know has

 

[ArmyMatt]

It is good, and yes he does. This book seems to be one of the ones everyone I know has

yeah, I love his debate with the communist/atheist in there.

 

[Lukaris]

I think much of this can depend on circumstances. If an old world Orthodox faith community has been "evangelized" by presumptuous types who think we worship idols or whatever, then we should pay much attention to the elder's statement. To apply this to your average evangelical Christian in America, for ex., does not seem fair until one discerns on an individual basis.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Fair enough, Matt. I have not read his book, so your point is valid. Apologies if I jumped to conclusions about his statements.

well, the Elder is not talking about their overall spiritual state, he is talking about the peace they feel which keeps them evangelical, which keeps them from the true Church. what he said has nothing to do with charity or their salvation.

and, if you read his book, there were few folks more strict with their spiritual lives than he was.