- Jul 9, 2017
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zephcom said: ↑
Religionists like to think they are circumventing logic by making up phrases they think are mysterious and inscrutable.
Logic does not apply to the spiritual - you are trying to dig with the wrong tool.
Unless you become as a little child you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. - That required childlike faith - not reason.
You are preaching in this world. Pretending that allows you to toss away anything you like does not make for good preaching.
But logic still applies in our lives. And it is logic which makes the idea that God knows what we will do and that we have freedom to choose a non-starter. Christians particularly have a massive problem with this issue because they insist that each person HAS to decide to be 'saved' or they are forever lost while their God, by definition has to be able to know everything.
I believe because He appeared to me face to face when I was about 8 years old.
Which, of course, has nothing at all to do with the discussion.
In order to keep their religion afloat they have to reconcile how an individual can truly choose and their God know before hand what they have chosen. Your 'outside of time' is one attempt to reconcile that issue. It fails, however, because Christianity insists that God is active 'inside of time' and carries that information with Him.
Im glad I don't need to pass your test - God Chooses His own but does not force their performance. Why is it so hard to conceive of a God who sees across time but chooses not to manipulate?
-I- did not say that God chooses to manipulate. Please pay attention to what I say. The problem is that God merely knows...perfectly...the future. It is just knowing that locks us out of free will.
And as mere humans, we simply do not have the ability to make Him wrong. And that means while we may perceive that we have free will, in reality we don't. We can only do what God knows we will do.
This is Robot talk - Moses asked passionately that He withdraw Judgement on Israel and He did...
God's judgment has nothing at all to do with the conversation. Please stay on the topic.
And that destroys the Christian concept that we can choose or not choose to be 'saved'. It is the Achilles Heel of modern Christianity. And the apologists will make up all sorts of word spaghetti in order to make that problem go away.
It is a problem for those who do not believe in election but folks like myself who know that Grace unto salvation is a gift appreciate How wonderful and loving God is by gifting what we don't deserve. We will eternally thank Him for it.
Again, this has nothing at all to do with the conversation.
Why don't you ask Him to reveal Himself to you ?
Since God already knows what I will do, I have no choice in the matter. It makes no sense asking me why I don't do anything.
Religionists like to think they are circumventing logic by making up phrases they think are mysterious and inscrutable.
Logic does not apply to the spiritual - you are trying to dig with the wrong tool.
Unless you become as a little child you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. - That required childlike faith - not reason.
You are preaching in this world. Pretending that allows you to toss away anything you like does not make for good preaching.
But logic still applies in our lives. And it is logic which makes the idea that God knows what we will do and that we have freedom to choose a non-starter. Christians particularly have a massive problem with this issue because they insist that each person HAS to decide to be 'saved' or they are forever lost while their God, by definition has to be able to know everything.
I believe because He appeared to me face to face when I was about 8 years old.
Which, of course, has nothing at all to do with the discussion.
In order to keep their religion afloat they have to reconcile how an individual can truly choose and their God know before hand what they have chosen. Your 'outside of time' is one attempt to reconcile that issue. It fails, however, because Christianity insists that God is active 'inside of time' and carries that information with Him.
Im glad I don't need to pass your test - God Chooses His own but does not force their performance. Why is it so hard to conceive of a God who sees across time but chooses not to manipulate?
-I- did not say that God chooses to manipulate. Please pay attention to what I say. The problem is that God merely knows...perfectly...the future. It is just knowing that locks us out of free will.
And as mere humans, we simply do not have the ability to make Him wrong. And that means while we may perceive that we have free will, in reality we don't. We can only do what God knows we will do.
This is Robot talk - Moses asked passionately that He withdraw Judgement on Israel and He did...
God's judgment has nothing at all to do with the conversation. Please stay on the topic.
And that destroys the Christian concept that we can choose or not choose to be 'saved'. It is the Achilles Heel of modern Christianity. And the apologists will make up all sorts of word spaghetti in order to make that problem go away.
It is a problem for those who do not believe in election but folks like myself who know that Grace unto salvation is a gift appreciate How wonderful and loving God is by gifting what we don't deserve. We will eternally thank Him for it.
Again, this has nothing at all to do with the conversation.
Why don't you ask Him to reveal Himself to you ?
Since God already knows what I will do, I have no choice in the matter. It makes no sense asking me why I don't do anything.
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