How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Oncedeceived]

What was your experience again?

Is that better?

(Also, keep in mind that I was also a believer for a number of years. I never received a sign despite asking for one, although that has nothing to do with me no longer being a Christian)

So was I.

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Is that better?

Is what better?

 

[Oncedeceived]

I'm pretty sure he said, "I did believe", you assumed he had not experienced "God's reality", then told him what he knew or didn't know.

If you will reread his post you will see that he was wanting a sign of God's existence. If He had experienced God as real he would not have needed the sign.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Is what better?

Oh, you were not trying to be funny? My bad.

 

[Oncedeceived]

It depends on the sign. If I just asked for a sign, and then came upon a stop sign as I was driving, I wouldn't really accept that as much. If I asked for a lightning strike on a stormy night, I wouldn't accept that as much of a sign either. If I asked for something more specific and unpredictable, like the Northern Lights to appear in an area they rarely do, that would be more impressive. If, as I was driving home, I asked for the sign to be a message on my voicemail from phone number 604-528-5935 that was a wrong number and the person was looking for Jason, well, that would be mighty impressive if that occurred. And if I do get home today to find a message from that number asking for Jason, I guarantee you it would cause me to do some heavy questioning and soul-searching regarding my beliefs.

So what you are saying is that there is a point that if a certain "sign" was given that you would do some heavy questioning and soul searching; but would you be willing if you received this call from a wrong number asking for Jason, that it was God of the Bible? Would you be able to accept all that that entails?

 

[Skaloop]

If you will reread his post you will see that he was wanting a sign of God's existence. If He had experienced God as real he would not have needed the sign.

Seems a bit of a Catch-22 there.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Seems a bit of a Catch-22 there.

How so?

 

[Simply_Amazing]

Oh, you were not trying to be funny? My bad.

Do you have a supernatural experience to share with us? If so, what? If not, then please say so.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Do you have a supernatural experience to share with us? If so, what? If not, then please say so.

If what I have posted does not fit with your idea of a supernatural experience then ok. I have no problem with that.

 

[Non sequitur]

If you will reread his post you will see that he was wanting a sign of God's existence. If He had experienced God as real he would not have needed the sign.

"I did believe. I started asking for signs when I began to experience doubts about God's existence, and I really wanted there to be some. None were forthcoming."

Does every Christian never doubt?

He said he did believe, but began to experience doubt.... and you just told him what that "really" meant.

You're doing it again...

 

[Simply_Amazing]

If what I have posted does not fit with your idea of a supernatural experience then ok. I have no problem with that.

What did you post? I don't see it, and would like you to retell it, possibly with more detail.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Does every Christian never doubt?

He said he did believe, but began to experience doubt.... and you just told him what that "really" meant.

You're doing it again...

Well if I misunderstood he is free to set me straight.

 

[Skaloop]

So what you are saying is that there is a point that if a certain "sign" was given that you would do some heavy questioning and soul searching; but would you be willing if you received this call from a wrong number asking for Jason, that it was God of the Bible? Would you be able to accept all that that entails?

Probably not right away. But it would certainly start me on a new path regarding my beliefs.

 

[Non sequitur]

Well if I misunderstood he is free to set me straight.

I hope he sets the record straight.

I would be curious to see your response, if you misunderstood him.

 

[MoonLancer]

These are your exact words. I've underlined the significant points of your request. I provided an instance when God through my relationship gave me the knowledge to better understand Him.

No you did not. You saw an aurora. That is not a relationship. You provided an anacdotal testimony that reinforced a belief you already had. That is not a relationship or knowlage

It demonstrated to me that God:
1. controls nature and willfully show that control to a person of faith.
2. That God does indeed want a personal relationship with me.
3. That God does care about even small life questions concerning my life.
4. That God want communication in varying ways with me.

there is a major disconnect from these points and your story. One cannot come to these conclusions. What did happen was you used this event to reinforced these ideas in your mind that you wanted to be true

These were things I learned by this experience.

You didn't know that from reading the bible? Are these elements not in the bible? This is an example of reinforcing a belief one already holds.

Relationship:
1 [count] : the way in which two or more people, groups, countries, etc., talk to, behave toward, and deal with each other
2 [count] : a romantic or sexual friendship between two people

3 : the way in which two or more people or things are connected

Is God a person? He seems to communicate more like an imaginary friend.

Knowledge:
3. acquaintance or familiarity gained by sight, experience, or report: a knowledge of human nature.

aka observation which cannot be applied to something outside space time. If he effects space time then there will be observable evidence of his actions, and not simply antidotes such as yours

 

[Skaloop]

How so?

It's sort of like you're saying one needs to have experienced God to get a sign, but if one has experienced God, one doesn't need a sign. Feel free to clarify.

 

[Oncedeceived]

What did you post? I don't see it, and would like you to retell it, possibly with more detail.

post #496 is the first post

More detail in post #590

 

[Oncedeceived]

It's sort of like you're saying one needs to have experienced God to get a sign, but if one has experienced God, one doesn't need a sign. Feel free to clarify.

No it is like I am saying that if one experiences the reality of God you don't doubt His existence. When you are in a position that you believe God exists but don't actually have any real "knowledge" that He exists there is a difference. The sign he was asking for may have given him the evidence he needed to "know" that God was real, I don't know.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Probably not right away. But it would certainly start me on a new path regarding my beliefs.

I see.

 

[Simply_Amazing]

I really do not like sharing personal experiences due to the fact that they can be dismissed so readily and yet they are very personal to the one that has them. Regardless, I will tell you of one instance that gave me knowledge that God cares for each of us on a very personal level.

Background: My husband and I left our lives in another state so that our daughter would be closer to extended family. We were a little concerned about starting somewhere else and had been praying about it. We were hoping that God would give us some sort of sign that we were doing the right thing. It wasn't long that we started seeing the northern lights spread across the sky. It is pretty rare in this area, in fact few people have ever seen them. Cars were pulling over to stand and watch. We thought this might be the sign we were looking for.

So jump ahead some seven years later. My husband is a painter and he and I were going to a near by town to see if he could get some art sold. I had done some sculpting as well and we were in need of cash. We had been trying to live on art and I wasn't so sure we should be. (Wasn't giving us much of an income) So we tried all the places we thought might be interested and sold a few things but it was pretty much a disappointment. My mother-in-law and husband were in the front seat, while I sat rather dejected in the back. I was asking God what we should do and I remembered for some reason the time earlier when we saw the northern lights and how we felt it was a sign. I asked God that if we were doing the right thing to show me the Northern lights again. We were just leaving a small town and so when at first I saw a red haze I questioned if I was just seeing the lights from town. I even asked my husband if he thought the sky was turning red. He said he thought it was just the lights from the town. So I sat there a few more minutes still praying and then the sky just went crazy. Red and green swept across the sky. It was incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes. The lights continued until we pulled into our driveway and then just stopped.

I have no proof of this. It is one of those things that you can dismiss, but I am being perfectly honest here. It happened.

I said it once (I think) and I'll say again. Confirmation bias.

Plenty of people lost their jobs, went out of work, and were generally screwed over in the last couple years. Given the recent economic troubles and U.S.'s high Christian population, that means that there were millions of people praying who were given no help.

It seems illogical to take this one exception and make a sign out of it. It's the earthquake effect. An entire city is devastated, but one small child is pulled from the ruins unharmed. People praise God for this miraculous occurring, but were they right to do so? Because of the large population being exposed to the earthquake, it was bound to happen. It also begs the question, why didn't God just stop the earthquake if we was in the business of saving people?

But lets continue, where do you live? That are places where Aurora Borealis is quite common.