How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

[Oncedeceived]

Im sorry but this is a story that only reinforces a belief in God. This is not a story of someone gaining understanding God.

You asked:

I'm looking for what particular information was divulged by God through your relationship that let you know and understand him.

Perhaps something that is NOT in the bible already. As Christians commonly say that one needs a personal relationship with god to understand him and that simply knowing whats written in the bible is not enough.

I responded:

I really do not like sharing personal experiences due to the fact that they can be dismissed so readily and yet they are very personal to the one that has them. Regardless, I will tell you of one instance that gave me knowledge that God cares for each of us on a very personal level.

Now how does this story not meet with your requirements?

1. I gave you an instance when God revealed his personal concern for me.
You wanted an example of what revelation God gave in my personal relationship that I gained knowledge from.

2. Not only did it give me understanding of His character but also that my faith in Him is not in vain.

if i have made a mistake then what understanding of God did you gain by this event? What about God do you understand more? What did you learn? Can you describe God in more detail now?

In addition to above, I would say that I gained an understanding that God does indeed have power over the natural world. That He communicates in many ways and that He will give when we ask to receive.

 

[Oncedeceived]

I, myself, have always found anecdotal evidence or proof lacking...

Proof was not asked for.

 

[Delphiki]

If you know God exists because he allegedly did something to show he has power over the natural world, then what makes you think that it wasn't just something happening in the natural world? What was evident to you, besides already believing in God, that made these natural events indicative that a deity was intervening?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Yes. I do not think any information was learned about God in this story which is what asked for.

There was unless you are moving the goal post.

When people say that by doing X they gain more Understanding of God, Is it wrong of me to expect something from that word?

You didn't ask for something you could learn.

If i gain more understanding of a person, it should mean i know more about them, and i should be able to convey what i know to another.

How did I fail to convey what I learned to you.

I hope this is not a case of abusing words.

In regards to you or me?

 

[selfinflikted]

If you know God exists because he allegedly did something to show he has power over the natural world, then what makes you think that it wasn't just something happening in the natural world? What was evident to you, besides already believing in God, that made these natural events indicative that a deity was intervening?

Confirmation bias.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Does that include Muslims?

Allah is not the same God as the Christian God.

 

[Paul 5]

Salvation from hell. Fear again. It's fear all down the line. Tell a fundamentalist that hell doesn't exist and they get much more worked up than if you tell them heaven doesn't exist.

The reason is because the person who does not believe in hell does not see any reason to be saved,Jesus died to give humanity a chance to miss an eternity of suffering,if you do not believe that the suffering of hell awaits you then of course you see not reason to be saved(saved from what you ask). A blind man in the water surrounded by sharks may mock the out-stretched hand meant to save him because in his present condition he only feels the coolness and relaxation of being in the water. Of course his pleasant condition is very limited by time,however in the short time he has he can still mock and laugh at the person offering to save him. This life is really very short,if hell is real(and I believe that it is)then even as we speak thousands of mockers are finding to their everlasting terror that the hell they mocked was real.

 

[Non sequitur]

Non sequitur
I, myself, have always found anecdotal evidence or proof lacking...
Proof was not asked for.

Proof was not asked for.

You're missing the point.

Anecdotal evidence, in this case, was the "proof" offered.

Does gravity have to offer "proof" verify its validity?

 

[Non sequitur]

Allah is not the same God as the Christian God.

Allah, in Arabic, it is the standard word for "God," used not only by Muslims, but also by Bahá'ís, Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Mizrahi Jews and Sikhs.

 

[MoonLancer]

You asked:

I'm looking for what particular information was divulged by God through your relationship that let you know and understand him.

Perhaps something that is NOT in the bible already. As Christians commonly say that one needs a personal relationship with god to understand him and that simply knowing whats written in the bible is not enough.

I responded:

I really do not like sharing personal experiences due to the fact that they can be dismissed so readily and yet they are very personal to the one that has them. Regardless, I will tell you of one instance that gave me knowledge that God cares for each of us on a very personal level.

Now how does this story not meet with your requirements?

1. I gave you an instance when God revealed his personal concern for me.
You wanted an example of what revelation God gave in my personal relationship that I gained knowledge from.

2. Not only did it give me understanding of His character but also that my faith in Him is not in vain.



In addition to above, I would say that I gained an understanding that God does indeed have power over the natural world. That He communicates in many ways and that He will give when we ask to receive.

You provided an event you think was a casual force of God. But no knowledge of God was gained that an atheist cannot learn in the context observing the bible as mythology. Your story was more about faith and belief.

There was nothing learned. You simply used this event to reinforce what you already want to be true.

Lets say I read a bio about someone I learn a little about that person, but if i enter a relationship with that person I should expect to learn something new about that person.

After all, knowledge of God was supposed to grow. I have yet to be provided with an example of how this can be the case.

 

[MoonLancer]

There was unless you are moving the goal post.

No goal post was moved, but perhaps the implication of what understanding is was not... understood.

You didn't ask for something you could learn.

Its not an issue of ability. Knowledge is gained through information, something to be learned.

How did I fail to convey what I learned to you.

well your story did not contain anything you learned. Only a story that reinforced what you wanted to believe. That is not the same thing. What Knowledge did you gain that an atheist does not know by reading the bible? you story was about faith not knowledge.

In regards to you or me?

Even if you want to take the word knowledge into realm of philosophy there is nothing justifiable in your statement that goes beyond coincidence. hardly knowledge.

 

[Oncedeceived]

If you know God exists because he allegedly did something to show he has power over the natural world, then what makes you think that it wasn't just something happening in the natural world?

I didn't say that I know God exists because He did something to show he has power over the natural world.

I gave an example that fit the requirments that MoonLancer asked for.

What was evident to you, besides already believing in God, that made these natural events indicative that a deity was intervening?

You mean besides the fact that I had just asked Him to create northern lights in the sky and moments later they appeared? Do you mean other than the fact that this is extremely rare to even happen in this area. Possibly that they stopped the minute we were home and in the drive?

 

[American Routes]

First, let me note that I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this post or it's even allowed in these forums in general. If it shouldn't be here, I'd ask a mod to move it to the right forum or delete it.

This is a personal story, and one I think worth telling, but as a personal story when I use any possibly controversial terms such as science, evolution, christianity, decency, or critical thinking the definitions I'm using are mine.

I grew up in an atheist household. Religion wasn't really talked about. Around the time I was graduating high school and starting college, when I was younger and stupider than I even am now, I became really aware of my atheism and my lack of conviction in it. So I set out to explore religion.

When it came to christianity, my exploration became intertwined with the loudest and most evangelical group of christians in my area. They told me that in order to be a christian, I would have to believe that the earth was 6,000 years old, that evolution wasn't science, that the big bang never happened, that basically all of the facts, ideas, and reasoning tools I had grown up adoring must be thrown out. Unsurprisingly, I rejected them instead.

The worst part, the part where my immaturity led me astray, was that I believed them when they told me that they stood for christianity. I believed them when they said there was no compatibility between christianity and what I called critical thinking. And I generalized, more or less, their beliefs to all christians.

This led to some years of my entertaining very silly ideas, wherein I regarded all christians as superstitious fools incapable of a coherent belief system. I've met more reasonable believers since then, and they helped disabuse me of these notions, but none communicated as deep and thorough an integration of science, critical thinking, decency, and christianity as I've learned is possible from reading these boards. I think if my first substantial interaction with evangelism had been with a mature, intelligent theistic evolutionist I could be a christian today. As it stands now, I've reopened the possibility. I don't expect to convert, but if enough questions get answered in a way that resonates with me I may.

That is, of course, unless it is impossible to both believe in strongly supported scientific theories such as evolution and be christian. In that case, I ain't ever getting saved.

You say that creationists pushed you away from Christianity, but if that's what pushed you away from Christianity, then I've got to wonder just what your Christianity was based on in the first place.

It sounds like you're more interested in being correct in your views of evolution than you are in submitting to Christ and being reconciled to God.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You provided an event you think was a casual force of God. But no knowledge of God was gained that an atheist cannot learn in the context observing the bible as mythology. Your story was more about faith and belief.

You didn't ask for knowledge that an atheist could learn from.

There was nothing learned. You simply used this event to* -
reinforce what you already want to be true.

You are not in the position to know what or what I did not learn.

Lets say I read a bio about someone I learn a little about that person, but if i enter a relationship with that person I should expect to learn something new about that person.

Which I did. The fact that you didn't is of no consequence.

After all, knowledge of God was supposed to grow. I have yet to be provided with an example of how this can be the case.

Knowledge of God comes from a personal relationship and does grow from that, the fact that you can not understand is really not something I can help you with.

 

[Non sequitur]

You mean besides the fact that I had just asked Him to create northern lights in the sky and moments later they appeared? Do you mean other than the fact that this is extremely rare to even happen in this area. Possibly that they stopped the minute we were home and in the drive?

And where (state) do you live?

 

[Oncedeceived]

Allah, in Arabic, it is the standard word for "God," used not only by Muslims, but also by Bahá'ís, Eastern Catholic Christians, Maltese Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Mizrahi Jews and Sikhs.

I am not talking about the title God.

 

[FrenchyBearpaw]

You say that creationists pushed you away from Christianity, but if that's what pushed you away from Christianity, then I've got to wonder just what your Christianity was based on in the first place.

It sounds like you're more interested in being correct in your views of evolution than you are in submitting to Christ and being reconciled to God.

It's my opinion that most people truly want to see the world as it is. As information and education become broader in scope and understanding, some come to realize that what can be observed around them very seriously conflicts with personal religious beliefs and doctrines. How much one is willing to accept is known as cognitive dissonance. When this chasm becomes to great (I call this the "sleep factor" - the point at which you begin to lose sleep because you know deep down what you believe just ain't true), one must decide to accept reality, or ignore it all together.

You have clearly demonstrated this understanding yourself; "It sounds like you're more interested in being correct in your views of evolution than you are in submitting to Christ and being reconciled to God."

 

[Oncedeceived]

Confirmation bias.

Yes, but I think you were referring to me.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not the one whose principle concern in life is saving his own hide from hell.

Then please don't project your own artificial fears on to us; I'm not buying it.

 

[Oncedeceived]

You're missing the point.

Anecdotal evidence, in this case, was the "proof" offered.

Does gravity have to offer "proof" verify its validity?

No. You are missing the point. I gave an experience that fit with the requirements asked for. Simple. Nothing more.