How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

Belk said:

Hmmmm. Well, not a terribly convincing reason to be honest. Thanks for the answer though.

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Of course you wouldn't find it convincing; be reasonable.

You asked a question and I answered it as best I could, but I can't work miracles. Well, not that kind, anyway.

Catherineanne said:

Of course you wouldn't find it convincing; be reasonable.

You asked a question and I answered it as best I could, but I can't work miracles. Well, not that kind, anyway.

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Indeed. I understood that to be the case.

British Bulldog said:

I must say it's great fun watching American Christians getting confused when confronted with other, saner versions of Christianity. You can almost watch their brains going "abort, retry, fail".

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Don't get too excited. Human interpretation does nothing to the truth of the religion. I find that each person has a journey with God and as the relationship grows, so does the understanding of Him.

Obviously, being an atheist, I find plenty of nonsense to disagree with in Catherineanne's posts, but I can at least appreciate that her version of Christianity makes much more sense on a humane and emotional level than the American fundamentalist infantalist version, which doesn't.

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That is hardly surprising. The fact that atheists and some Christians as well would like to forget about the harsher sides of the faith, it doesn't change that we don't make the rules. God does. We much prefer, as a human race, mercy and kindness. Which in reality is what Jesus is all about.

Oncedeceived said:

Don't get too excited. Human interpretation does nothing to the truth of the religion. I find that each person has a journey with God and as the relationship grows, so does the understanding of Him.

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i find those who claim to know him cant answer the most basic questions about him.

Non sequitur said:

I'll go with either, for a personal appearance.



A subjective independent "awareness" is simply that, not a truth.

Why do you keep arguing by begging the question?


This analogy could be used for any religion, so I'm sorry logic upsets you so much that you think logic is mocking.

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I think that the second would be far less desirable.

I never stated that independent awareness was proof of truth. I said that independent awareness sets God apart from your leprechaun or any other current parody of God.

If you did'nt use it to mock or belittle, then so be it, but most people that use this argument are using it to create an appearance of ignorance or gullibility on the part of the believer.

MoonLancer said:

i find those who claim to know him cant answer the most basic questions about him.

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Your point?

Oncedeceived said:

Your point?

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if one cannot answer basic questions about something one claims know, its not really something they know.

do you see something faulty with my reasoning or do you simply dislike the conclusion and its implication?

MoonLancer said:

if one cannot answer basic questions about something one claims know, its not really something they know.

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That would depend on what you consider basic questions.

do you see something faulty with my reasoning or do you simply dislike the conclusion and its implication?

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Of the above statement? I find nothing faulty in your reasoning. Although that being said, God reveals Himself in many different ways to different people so that has to be considered as well.

Oncedeceived said:

That would depend on what you consider basic questions.



Of the above statement? I find nothing faulty in your reasoning. Although that being said, God reveals Himself in many different ways to different people so that has to be considered as well.

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does he reveal himself in any way that could be attached to the words know and knowledge? give me some examples

MoonLancer said:

does he reveal himself in any way that could be attached to the words know and knowledge? give me some examples

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Your going to have to elaborate a bit more, I am not sure what you are looking for here.

Oncedeceived said:

I think that the second would be far less desirable.

I never stated that independent awareness was proof of truth. I said that independent awareness sets God apart from your leprechaun or any other current parody of God.

If you did'nt use it to mock or belittle, then so be it, but most people that use this argument are using it to create an appearance of ignorance or gullibility on the part of the believer.

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Is there any concrete evidence of this "independent awareness"? It has to be pretty specific, as in, lots of cultures have a tradition of tiny magical people, which could be interpreted as "independent awareness" of leprechauns, if we're being vague enough.

Oncedeceived said:

Your going to have to elaborate a bit more, I am not sure what you are looking for here.

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I'm looking for what particular information was divulged by God through your relationship that let you know and understand him.

Perhaps something that is NOT in the bible already. As Christians commonly say that one needs a personal relationship with god to understand him and that simply knowing whats written in the bible is not enough.

Ar Cosc said:

Is there any concrete evidence of this "independent awareness"? It has to be pretty specific, as in, lots of cultures have a tradition of tiny magical people, which could be interpreted as "independent awareness" of leprechauns, if we're being vague enough.

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Is there concrete evidence of your awareness?

Oncedeceived said:

Is there concrete evidence of your awareness?

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My awareness of what? The fact that I'm replying to your post should prove I'm aware of my surroundings, at least

Ar Cosc said:

My awareness of what? The fact that I'm replying to your post should prove I'm aware of my surroundings, at least

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LOL that was easy

MoonLancer said:

I'm looking for what particular information was divulged by God through your relationship that let you know and understand him.

Perhaps something that is NOT in the bible already. As Christians commonly say that one needs a personal relationship with god to understand him and that simply knowing whats written in the bible is not enough.

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I really do not like sharing personal experiences due to the fact that they can be dismissed so readily and yet they are very personal to the one that has them. Regardless, I will tell you of one instance that gave me knowledge that God cares for each of us on a very personal level.

Background: My husband and I left our lives in another state so that our daughter would be closer to extended family. We were a little concerned about starting somewhere else and had been praying about it. We were hoping that God would give us some sort of sign that we were doing the right thing. It wasn't long that we started seeing the northern lights spread across the sky. It is pretty rare in this area, in fact few people have ever seen them. Cars were pulling over to stand and watch. We thought this might be the sign we were looking for.

So jump ahead some seven years later. My husband is a painter and he and I were going to a near by town to see if he could get some art sold. I had done some sculpting as well and we were in need of cash. We had been trying to live on art and I wasn't so sure we should be. (Wasn't giving us much of an income) So we tried all the places we thought might be interested and sold a few things but it was pretty much a disappointment. My mother-in-law and husband were in the front seat, while I sat rather dejected in the back. I was asking God what we should do and I remembered for some reason the time earlier when we saw the northern lights and how we felt it was a sign. I asked God that if we were doing the right thing to show me the Northern lights again. We were just leaving a small town and so when at first I saw a red haze I questioned if I was just seeing the lights from town. I even asked my husband if he thought the sky was turning red. He said he thought it was just the lights from the town. So I sat there a few more minutes still praying and then the sky just went crazy. Red and green swept across the sky. It was incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes. The lights continued until we pulled into our driveway and then just stopped.

I have no proof of this. It is one of those things that you can dismiss, but I am being perfectly honest here. It happened.

MoonLancer said:

Perhaps something that is NOT in the bible already.

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Everything is in the Bible. God gave Moses all of His plan of Salvation. Nothing was added after Moses. Only more details to explain it all better.

Ar Cosc said:

My awareness of what? The fact that I'm replying to your post should prove I'm aware of my surroundings, at least

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There is no evidence that provides me with the knowledge that you are aware of your surroundings.

Jazer said:

Everything is in the Bible. God gave Moses all of His plan of Salvation. Nothing was added after Moses. Only more details to explain it all better.

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Please back this statement up.

Oncedeceived said:

There is no evidence that provides me with the knowledge that you are aware of your surroundings.

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There is plenty of evidence that he was aware of his surrounding when he wrote that post, so unless you have reason to believe that something has suddenly changed...