How sinles must I be in order to be perfect?

[Adventtruth]

A) Of course that includes me... what, am I something special??

So that would make you perfect in and of yourself correct...at what you call probation or death seeing that you have confessed every sin and are now spotless....that is but another attempt at Adventist teaching sinless perfection.

B) Did you make the choice to ask Jesus to be your Saviour? Thats a choice... do we not have free will to walk towards God or away from him?

That would be pointless....its all about Jesus...do you agree?

C) I'm not God and wouldn't know his heart but considering he was crucified upside down for the cause of Christ, I'm sure he was well prepared for martyrdom.

This question and answer was related directly to question and answer A. so you should not go away from your original thought....

But of course you missed the point of the comparison between Judas and Peter... do you believe that Judas was a true disciple that succumbed to temptation or do you believe he was never a sincere believer?

It seems to me he Judas, was a sincere believer who wanted Jesus to show His power....but in doing so, he tried to put in his own plain and have God go off course of what God had planed from the foundation of the world. And that was to correct the sin of Adam and save the world through Abraham, which means through Israel, which means through Messiah. God has always had one single plain to save the world.

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It seems to me he Judas, was a sincere believer who wanted Jesus to show His power....but in doing so, he tried to put in his own plain and have God go off course of what God had planed from the foundation of the world. And that was to correct the sin of Adam and save the world through Abraham, which means through Israel, which means through Messiah. God has always had one single plain to save the world.

AT

So, according to your belief then, Judas would still be saved and will see heaven?

 

[Adventtruth]

So, according to your belief then, Judas would still be saved and will see heaven?

You don't even know what I believe....so don't make unsound conclusion please. The bible says Satin entered him...speaking of Judas.

For the record, I will let you know I dont believe in OSAS.

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

So that would make you perfect in and of yourself correct...at what you call probation or death seeing that you have confessed every sin and are now spotless....that is but another attempt at Adventist teaching sinless perfection.

You can think of me whatever you want... I have stated my belief on these two Adventist forums more than once that glorifies Jesus for my redemption and my sanctification.... I don't even think some of you even read the entire post as you already have an answer ready when you see something that you can get your teeth into... rather sad.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

You don't even know what I believe....so don't make unsound conclusion please. The bible says Satin entered him...speaking of Judas.

For the record, I will let you know I dont believe in OSAS.

AT

Then how does one lose their salvation?

 

[Adventtruth]

Then how does one lose their salvation?

lose faith...its the only way.

 

[Joe67]

The following warnings are needful for us.

Rom 1:18
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; KJV

Luke 16:13
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. KJV

We lay hold of the hope that is before us in Jesus in the sanctuary above, the new Jerusalem.

Col 1:24
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; KJV

Joe

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

lose faith...its the only way.

So I can believe with earnest faith that Jesus will redeem me while sinning without contemplation or confession...

 

[Adventtruth]

So I can believe with earnest faith that Jesus will redeem me while sinning without contemplation or confession...

Its obvious that you are completely senseless....or you just don'tknow what the word faith means biblical. Why do I say that??? Because you come up with these unreasonable and foolish arguments and questions without thinking things through. You are ask me if active living faith in His works relates to sinning....what such a retarded Idea ECR

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Its obvious that you are completely senseless....or you just don'tknow what the word faith means biblical. Why do I say that??? Because you come up with these unreasonable and foolish arguments and questions without thinking things through. You are ask me if active living faith in His works relates to sinning....what such a retarded Idea ECR

AT

I was just following your responses in trying to figure out what you think about justification and sanctification... but thanx for the lovely sentiment.

 

[Adventtruth]

I was just following your responses in trying to figure out what you think about justification and sanctification... but thanx for the lovely sentiment.

Well that certainly is no way to ask about Just/sanc....Just come out and ask what you mean please...sorry for being rude he ECR.

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

No worries, I realize I was following a tactic used by others on here of asking questions to corral you into an answer... my apologies as well.

 

[Adventtruth]

Here's what It means to be justified and sanctified ECR.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

AT

 

[Adventtruth]

No worries, I realize I was following a tactic used by others on here of asking questions to corral you into an answer... my apologies as well.

NP. I was Adventist for about 20years so I've seen a lot of the skilled maneuvers by some. The best way is to ask questions and try to understand what is being said without jumping to conclusions or baiting one into answers. Be direct as can been, and if opposed, state why without hostilities. That's the best way.

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Here's what It means to be justified and sanctified ECR.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

AT

I would agree with that verse stating sanctification, or at least part of what I consider sanctification, but I think you don't agree with our role of works in sanctification

 

[Adventtruth]

I would agree with that verse stating sanctification, or at least part of what I consider sanctification, but I think you don't agree with our role of works in sanctification

Can you kindly explain what you mean by "our role of works in sanctification"?

When I was Adventist the teaching was we cooperate with the HS leading....is that what you mean?

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Can you kindly explain what you mean by "our role of works in sanctification"?

When I was Adventist the teaching was we cooperate with the HS leading....is that what you mean?

AT

Yes, I would say that sums it up. The covenant is two way, not what Christ can do for me only but also what can I honour Him with through my loving obedience.

 

[Adventtruth]

Yes, I would say that sums it up. The covenant is two way, not what Christ can do for me only but also what can I honour Him with through my loving obedience.

FYI...this is all law-cout language...and should be looked at as such according to Paul's theology in the scope or frame work of covenant.

Neither covenants...the old or the new where defined by what a person does but what a person believes. Without going into to much detail....King David was already part of Gods covenant family by birth right. Even when he sinned with Bathsheba he was not cast off for his sin because David was marked out as a member of Gods family. Davids faith is what propelled him to keep the covenant charter...which in turn marked David out as one of the faithful within that covenant. Because David trusted God he was marked out by God as being righteous.

In the new covenant we are as well marked out by God as being righteous. Not by what we do, but by faith. Now if a person has true active living faith, they are in union with Christ/Holy Spirit which leads a person...who is imperfect and sinful... into righteousness. Not because we are morally better than others or because we do what is right sometimes but because we trust with genuine faith. Now don't get it wrong....faith does not mean we will do things perfect or right or that we don't sin. Genuine faith marks a person out as now being in Gods covenant community and it also anticipates and guarantees that he will be in that family at the last day as long as the living faith is contemporary.

Now the question is....what is the New Covenant Charter ECR ?

AT

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

FYI...this is all law-cout language...and should be looked at as such according to Paul's theology in the scope or frame work of covenant.

Neither covenants...the old or the new where defined by what a person does but what a person believes. Without going into to much detail....King David was already part of Gods covenant family by birth right. Even when he sinned with Bathsheba he was not cast off for his sin because David was marked out as a member of Gods family. Davids faith is what propelled him to keep the covenant charter...which in turn marked David out as one of the faithful within that covenant. Because David trusted God he was marked out by God as being righteous.

In the new covenant we are as well marked out by God as being righteous. Not by what we do, but by faith. Now if a person has true active living faith, they are in union with Christ/Holy Spirit which leads a person...who is imperfect and sinful... into righteousness. Not because we are morally better than others or because we do what is right sometimes but because we trust with genuine faith. Now don't get it wrong....faith does not mean we will do things perfect or right or that we don't sin. Genuine faith marks a person out as now being in Gods covenant community and it also anticipates and guarantees that he will be in that family at the last day as long as the living faith is contemporary.

Now the question is....what is the New Covenant Charter ECR ?

AT

Using the above example of David... he repented of his sin, did he not? It wasn't his birthright that kept him righteous but his devotion and love for God and that he asked for forgiveness for his transgression, right? And I would argue that it was conviction, not faithfulness that brought him to repentence.

IOW, his birthright wouldn't have meant diddly if he had of continued, unrepentent, in his behaviour.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

In the new covenant we are as well marked out by God as being righteous. Not by what we do, but by faith.

Last I knew, we are not righteous of ourselves but by Christ's atoning blood. He is righteous, we are as filthy rags...

It is by faith that I accept the promise of salvation but that still does not make me righteous.