How should wine/strong drink be handled?

[JohnMarsten]

There have been some fierce discussions as to wether the bible does or does not allow for a drink.

As a conclusion I see that there will always be people in favor of wine and there will be people who are against it.

Both sides will provide examples from the bible

but now How shall we handle the whole thing from a christian perspective?

Like I said many times I dont drink very often, probably because I dont have too many occasions on which to drink and I would probably drink more if I had more occasions. I dont drink with everyone, in fact I try to select the people I drink with and determine on which occasion to drink...

I respect those who never drink and I know about the dangers of alcohol. Not too many alcoholics expected to become addicted and stuff...

Sometimes I think about Paul when he says it is good not to drink wine and not to eat meat...

Romans 14

The Weak and the Strong

1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[c]




In regard to the above context I wonder if any of our discussions on alcohol should even take place. Paul recommends to keep what we believe between ourselves and God. And from this day on I will no longer argue about wine and strong drink; I will keep my belief between me and God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JohnMarsten]

Ok, wine is a matter of the past

but now it makes me wonder how to implement it

Paul is speaking about wine and meat

Lets say I am invited to a place with christians, they debate over this wine/meat thing, how am I supposed to handle myself? I mean even if I keep my belief between me and God I need to say something, and still I cannot lie for the sake of the weaker brethren who abstain.

Am I supposed to say the very same thing as Paul suggests like: I keep this between me and God?

How would you react to someone answering this way? Would arouse suspicion? Would you think this guy is hiding something? Would you think he is consuming alcohol?

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Like I said many times I dont drink very often, probably because I dont have too many occasions on which to drink and I would probably drink more if I had more occasions. I dont drink with everyone, in fact I try to select the people I drink with and determine on which occasion to drink...

Be honest, do you get intoxicated when you do drink?

 

[Kira Light]

There have been some fierce discussions as to wether the bible does or does not allow for a drink.

As a conclusion I see that there will always be people in favor of wine and there will be people who are against it.

Both sides will provide examples from the bible

but now How shall we handle the whole thing from a christian perspective?

Like I said many times I dont drink very often, probably because I dont have too many occasions on which to drink and I would probably drink more if I had more occasions. I dont drink with everyone, in fact I try to select the people I drink with and determine on which occasion to drink...

I respect those who never drink and I know about the dangers of alcohol. Not too many alcoholics expected to become addicted and stuff...

Sometimes I think about Paul when he says it is good not to drink wine and not to eat meat...

Romans 14

The Weak and the Strong

1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”[b]
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.[c]




In regard to the above context I wonder if any of our discussions on alcohol should even take place. Paul recommends to keep what we believe between ourselves and God. And from this day on I will no longer argue about wine and strong drink; I will keep my belief between me and God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It says the same thing about days of worship. Will you never argue over that again, too?

 

[ricker]

Be honest, do you get intoxicated when you do drink?

Just curious. Do you think intoxicated is feeling a little warm in the stomach? A slight flush of mellowness? Being talkative? Being unsteady in walking? Throwing up and being sick the next day? Maybe being .08 or whatever your state has decided is the limit to drive?

 

[iLogos]

Just keep it simple. It's easy. Who's in control? If you occasionally drink moderately I see no harm in it, even if on some special occasions you may go over that limit a bit. If you find you need to drink regularly for no reason other then to feel good or better, there may be a problem indeed. If getting drunk is required and practiced every day or almost every day, there definitely is a problem. Common sense my friend should prevail.

 

[JohnMarsten]

Be honest, do you get intoxicated when you do drink?

Thats a tough question, what does it strictly mean to get intoxicated...?

 

[JohnMarsten]

It says the same thing about days of worship. Will you never argue over that again, too?

havent thought about that...

 

[Sophia7]

Be honest, do you get intoxicated when you do drink?

Just curious. Do you think intoxicated is feeling a little warm in the stomach? A slight flush of mellowness? Being talkative? Being unsteady in walking? Throwing up and being sick the next day? Maybe being .08 or whatever your state has decided is the limit to drive?

Thats a tough question, what does it strictly mean to get intoxicated...?

Perhaps this quote from the Adventist Review would help to provide an Adventist perspective on how much it takes to be considered intoxicated (emphasis added):

The pattern of alcohol consumption is changing, as mentioned previously. Figures for 2001-2005 released by the World Health Organization (WHO)2 revealed that worldwide, 6.13 liters of pure alcohol were consumed per year, per person, aged 15 years or older. This amount appeared to be stable in the Americas and the European, Eastern Mediterranean, and Western Pacific regions; however, marked increases were noted in Africa and Southeast Asia. Health risk increases even more when binge drinking occurs; in other words, when people drink to get drunk. Binge drinking may be defined differently according to the region of the world: in the United States more than five consecutive drinks for a male and more than four for a female; in Australia more than four drinks per night (previously, more than seven drinks per night for men and five for women). Binge drinking is increasing in many parts of the world, mainly among youth, but all age groups are affected.3​

The footnotes in the above paragraph reference this WHO document.

 

[jpcedotal]

How should wine/strong drink be handled?

in moderation

 

[JohnMarsten]

How should wine/strong drink be handled?

in moderation

for sure,

the question however, was in what kind of fashion should we talk or rather not talk about...?

are we to tell somebody who might have a problem with drinking that we dont drink (even though we have an occasional glass of wine, or two)?

I mean if we say that these topics are between us and God, doesnt it cause suspicion?

 

[Stryder06]

Just curious. Do you think intoxicated is feeling a little warm in the stomach? A slight flush of mellowness? Being talkative? Being unsteady in walking? Throwing up and being sick the next day? Maybe being .08 or whatever your state has decided is the limit to drive?

From what I've studied, one is intoxicated from their first cup. It's just the level of intoxication that varies.

 

[ricker]

From what I've studied, one is intoxicated from their first cup. It's just the level of intoxication that varies.

So your question to John M was just a little silly since you think any time a person drinks anything with alcohol in it they are intoxicated.

 

[Sophia7]

From what I've studied, one is intoxicated from their first cup. It's just the level of intoxication that varies.

Stryder, did you read what I quoted earlier from the Adventist Review?

Perhaps this quote from the Adventist Review would help to provide an Adventist perspective on how much it takes to be considered intoxicated (emphasis added):

The pattern of alcohol consumption is changing, as mentioned previously. Figures for 2001-2005 released by the World Health Organization (WHO)2 revealed that worldwide, 6.13 liters of pure alcohol were consumed per year, per person, aged 15 years or older. This amount appeared to be stable in the Americas and the European, Eastern Mediterranean, and Western Pacific regions; however, marked increases were noted in Africa and Southeast Asia. Health risk increases even more when binge drinking occurs; in other words, when people drink to get drunk. Binge drinking may be defined differently according to the region of the world: in the United States more than five consecutive drinks for a male and more than four for a female; in Australia more than four drinks per night (previously, more than seven drinks per night for men and five for women). Binge drinking is increasing in many parts of the world, mainly among youth, but all age groups are affected.3​

The footnotes in the above paragraph reference this WHO document.

Can you provide evidence to support your idea that drinking any amount of alcohol equals intoxication?

 

[ricker]

From what I've studied, one is intoxicated from their first cup. It's just the level of intoxication that varies.

The church I attend uses wine for Communion. (they also offer grape juice for those who prefer it.) Are we intoxicated twice a month, living a life of drunkenness?

 

[Stryder06]

So your question to John M was just a little silly since you think any time a person drinks anything with alcohol in it they are intoxicated.

What question are you referring to?

 

[Stryder06]

The church I attend uses wine for Communion. (they also offer grape juice for those who prefer it.) Are we intoxicated twice a month, living a life of drunkenness?

Like I said before, an article that I read, talking about the effects of alcohol on the body, stated that there is some affect on the body from any amount of alcohol. I don't recall saying that anyone who drank was living a life of drunkenness though, so I don't know why you would ask that.

 

[Stryder06]

Stryder, did you read what I quoted earlier from the Adventist Review?



Can you provide evidence to support your idea that drinking any amount of alcohol equals intoxication?

As good as you are at researching adventist sources, I'm certain you can confirm if what I said was accurate or not.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

What question are you referring to?

I think the question was from me asking John if he got intoxicated when he drank...

Maybe people are seeing us the same, being of one accord?

 

[JohnMarsten]

I think the question was from me asking John if he got intoxicated when he drank...

Maybe people are seeing us the same, being of one accord?

maybe you are one and the same guy