How should we read Paul?

Righttruth said:

Wicked generation seeks signs and wonders. Satan can do greater works. Only those who do the will of the Father will be saved.

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Paul teaches that as well. 1 Corinthians 13

Also, 2 Thessalonians 2:9

Righttruth said:

I have indicated that I don't wish to debate with Pentecostal people. Because, I think, they have made a mountain out a mole hill applying Paul's 1 Corinthians irrelevantly. People with strong delusion cannot understand reasoning. Sorry. But it doesn't mean that they don't have merits.

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What kind of Church do you go to?

Righttruth said:

I don't know whether I should laugh (I just did) or cry at your logic.

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I guess you don't know the meaning of the word "contradict..."

Righttruth said:

I have indicated that I don't wish to debate with Pentecostal people. Because, I think, they have made a mountain out a mole hill applying Paul's 1 Corinthians irrelevantly. People with strong delusion cannot understand reasoning. Sorry. But it doesn't mean that they don't have merits.

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righttruth,

1. Most people who are non-denominational are considered pentecostal and charismatic that believe in the gifts of the spirit. What kind of non-denominational are you?

2. How would you even know that people have made a mountain out of a mole hill about Paul's 1 Corinthians irrelevantly when you can't even specify what they are making a mountain out of a mole hill about with proof from scripture.

3. People with strong delusion cannot understand reasoning and cannot supply scriptural support of anything they say to the context and have a problem running away from being fair in debate and rebuttal with scriptural support.

4. People who have no clue who is speaking, who is being spoken to, gradual revelation and how God dealt with men in different ages with different rules for men to live by and what the specific context says and how it lines up with the overall bible context is a tinkling cymbal who is pretending to have knowledge that they don't have. That is called self merit for knowledge puffs up. This is not true exegesis of scripture. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

righttruth,

1. Most people who are non-denominational are considered pentecostal and charismatic that believe in the gifts of the spirit. What kind of non-denominational are you?

2. How would you even know that people have made a mountain out of a mole hill about Paul's 1 Corinthians irrelevantly when you can't even specify what they are making a mountain out of a mole hill about with proof from scripture.

3. People with strong delusion cannot understand reasoning and cannot supply scriptural support of anything they say to the context and have a problem running away from being fair in debate and rebuttal with scriptural support.

4. People who have no clue who is speaking, who is being spoken to, gradual revelation and how God dealt with men in different ages with different rules for men to live by and what the specific context says and how it lines up with the overall bible context is a tinkling cymbal who is pretending to have knowledge that they don't have. That is called self merit for knowledge puffs up. This is not true exegesis of scripture. Jerry Kelso

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Not that i agree with Righttruth's slander of the apostle Paul, but i agree that Pentecostals have made a mountain out of a molehill. WOF doctrine is just one example. WOF scares me.

Its not Pauls fault that WOF went off the rails though. Its because people listen to teachers who dont follow Paul's words. They only twist pauls words. Paul never lead me to believe in WOF doctrine. I use to listen to those WOF TV preachers, until i started to see that they were wrong about a couple things, then i stopped listening to them and started to study pauls letters more. Its then that i saw that WOF is wrong about most things.

THey have no idea what paul teaches, and its because they dont actually study pauls words, but instead they listen to bad teachers such as Mr Copeland, who learned his bad teaching from another bad teacher before him.. If people would turn off the TV preachers and actually study Pauls letters for themselves, they might see the truth. Its goof to study the Lords words at the same time as well.

I meant to say that "its good to study the Lords words at the same time as well"

I would edit but the edit is not working right now.

Righttruth said:

You are simply nodding and indicating like a sycophant.



Jesus fulfilled both the letter and the spirit of the Law. We need to fulfill the spirit of the Law which is more difficult, but that is what God wills.



That would have been a waste of time. He preached how one can enter the kingdom of heaven.



He established the Church with 12 chosen apostles to begin with.



Jesus preached the spiritual aspects of the OT and began a new covenant with His apostles.

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righttruth,

1. I have scriptural proof of Paul knowing Judaism and what Jesus taught because he taught the law of Moses and even you said this. You are contradicting and because you don't have truth of scripture to back up your claim that Paul didn't know all Jesus taught teters on being a pedifogger.

2. Hebrews 8:6-7 says the new covenant replaced the old covenant of which Jesus taught so we do not fulfill the spirit of the law according to the Mosaic ethic. This is why the new covenant is built on better promises and the power of the finished work of Christ and not self effort because of the weakness of the commandment of Moses of which the law of sin and death took advantage of Moses law and made them live to the frailty of man in sin. Read Romans 7. Romans 8, the law of the Spirit did away with the law of sin and death which was in Romans 7 who took advantage of the law that was holy and good and made them live to the frailty of man. Again you have no scriptural proof for your position or for a rebuttal.

3. The gospel is the death and the resurrection is how we are translated in the kingdom of his dear son. You once again wasted time in saying it would have been a waste of time if Jesus would have directly preached his death and resurrection and not even a logical answer. You spin terribly and this is a no spin zone. Do you even know what the KOH is?

4. He established the church with 12 apostles after the resurrection under the new testament in his blood, but they were disciples under the Mosaic law under the law dispensation which was a different message from the new covenant and was before the cross. Again you are mixed up with the time factor and the covenants.

5. The old covenant was in types and shadows and had a spiritual meaning and application in a specific theocracy with Israel and not the church. Hebrews 6:1 talks about leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ which was the Mosaic law and go onto perfection which was the new covenant for the purpose of Hebrews was to show the differences of the old covenant and the new covenant.
You can't possibly understand the significance of the spiritual aspect of the new covenant and it's better promises if you don't understand the totality of the message given in the teachings of Jesus concerning the old covenant. You have not shown any understanding of the context of Jesus teachings under the Mosaic law. Jerry Kelso

Righttruth said:

No sermon can surpass Sermon on the Mount. No pastor dares to preach that. Because if they preached and did not practice, they become first order hypocrites. They are happy with Paul's epistles. Even there, they pick and choose verses or part of the verses. That keeps the congregation tickled. Remember Jesus was ministering for more than three years. So His words carry messages that are not included in His short sermon. What did Jesus say to Nicodemus? And Samaritan woman?

Deluded people will be looking for temporal reliefs and benefits which Satan also offers abundantly.

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righttruth,

1. No sermon can surpass the Sermon on the Mount. No pastor dares to preach that because they would become hypocrites. This shows you are into works and you have no clue of what Jesus meant in the Sermon on the Mount. Why? because you are thinking with a gentile mind and have no comprehension of Jewish history concerning the KOH and the KOG message according to the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants.
This has nothing to do with being happy with Paul's epistles.
You don't even seem to pick or choose verses at all but instead choosing to espouse your opinions.

2. The Sermon on the Mount, Nicodemus and being born again and the Samaritan woman who said he told me everything I did is all connected to his Messiahship and it is also connected to the law keepers of the old covenant nation and there covenants specifically to Abraham and David that were not specific to the church age.

3. Deluded people don't have right answers and skate the truth. You talk about context but you won't show any which shows no foundation of understanding.
One can't keep making general opinions and show no context. One can't say just enough to leave the total picture in the grey so one doesn't have to show the truth without being exposed for not knowing the truth eventually.

6. If Paul would have deviated to the extreme and just made opinions that didn't coincide with the gospel Peter and the other apostles would have let him know and would have denounced him for claiming to be an apostle or anyone credible.
Show how you can harmonize Jesus teaching of Moses law with the new covenant. They are the opposite end of the polars. You are going to have do better for you are sinking deeper and deeper in the quicksand of unscriptural foundation. Jerry kelso

Righttruth said:

It is well known that the portion underlined with red letters were later insertions by Paul's cronies.

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Substantiate your assertion.

ScottA said:

If you continue to follow after the written word alone, you will have been left behind as the Spirit of Christ continues into the times of the gentiles (the Church age) via the Holy Spirit. Paul's epistles are written also...but only as the also serve during the transition from the written Word to the revelation of the Spirit, after which there is no further use of the written Word as a standalone reference.

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What is the transcendent standard in which you use to test truth claims.

Thanks.