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How should Adventist handle political issues such as Illegal Immigration?

reddogs

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God works in mysterious ways, I originally came online for "political" reasons as we were getting our neighbors homes and properties taken by eminent domain, almost 400 in total. I was selected as one of the spokeman, so I was contacting and talking to the various media. So I got online and gave information as to the plight of the poor people who were losing their homes, some losing their property, and others having the highway run right by their backdoor or very near to them.

We threw out the rascals in the Civic Association who were in league with the developers but the plans had already been approved, so we are going to fight at the county and state level next. Now, usually Adventist stay out of the political issues, and I would have too except I felt it was morally wrong and they saw me in action (the hammer away and darn the torpedos style) in the county commissioners meeting and they asked me to help. So thats how I got involved.

But does anyone have anything scriptural as to how to handle political issues that involve the law of the government such as illegal immigration, I bring this up as Florida has one of the highest number of legal and illegal immigrants along with the border states, so it is a pressing issue. We were almost ground to a halt in certain sectors of the economy by the marches last May and some members of the church fall into this catogory, so its something we come across directly. I would be interested in everyones take on this and anything scriptural............
 

Sophia7

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Obviously, the Bible doesn't specifically address illegal immigration. It does talk about how a Christian should relate to the government, though:
RO 13:1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

RO 13:6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

This text states that the government is God's "agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer" (vs. 4). The government has a moral responsibility, given by God, to exact judgment. God has set up governments, even secular governments, for a moral purpose--to commend those who do right and to punish those who do wrong.

The reason for this is that if people are allowed to continually do wrong, their consciences become "seared as with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:2). In Ephesians 4:18-19, Paul describes those who have completely given themselves over to doing what is wrong:
18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. 19 Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more.
The more people sin, the harder it is for their consciences to convict them, and the harder it is for them to accept Christ. That's why, as Christians with a mission to tell everyone about Jesus, we should do everything we can to keep our government as close to God's ideal as possible so that people's minds are not unnecessarily clouded by their immoral lifestyles.

However, this moral role can and should be separated from the enforcement of religious practices. Morality should be legislated; religion should not. I believe that as long as the government doesn't ask us to compromise our loyalty to God, we are obligated to submit to its authority. However, we also have a role in helping to approve or oppose certain laws. As Christians in a representative form of government, we should do everything possible to use our voices and our votes to preserve our religious freedoms. At the same time, I believe that we are obligated to uphold the moral standards of God's law--specifically, the parts that deal with how we treat others--so that people's consciences are not seared to the point where they become unable to respond to God. We don't have the power to force our beliefs on anyone, but we do have the responsibility to vote according to our consciences. Decisions on the legality of gay marriage, for example, and other controversial moral issues should not be made by the courts but by the voters. When our state had an amendment to uphold marriage between one man and one woman, I voted in support of it (and it passed, as it has in almost all of the states that have put such measures on the ballot so far).

On the subject of eminent domain, I believe that it's good to stand up for the rights of those who are having their homes improperly taken away. I would see this as a moral issue.

As far as illegal immigration, I think that people should respect the laws of our country and not come here illegally. I don't believe that we should have to support their blatant disrespect for our laws. I don't think that I should be compelled to provide medical care or education to them through my taxes. I don't live in a border state, but if I did, I would support practical measures that would enable the government to better enforce immigration laws.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I don't see anything wrong with being involved in the political process in order to uphold morality, as long as we can do so without violating our consciences or compromising our beliefs.
 
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Sophia7

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I think we should worry less about this Kingdom and worry more about the heavenly Kingdom. Of course I am not an Adventist...but we need to shy about from theocracies etc.

It's true that the heavenly kingdom is most important, but we still have to live here while we wait for Jesus to come. How can we reach other people for Him and give them the hope of salvation if they are wallowing in immorality because society and government place very few boundaries on their actions? Miracles can happen, but it's much tougher for the Holy Spirit to work in their hearts when their hearts have been so hardened by sin. I'd like to bring as many people as possible with me to heaven.
 
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reddogs

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In Florida there is one law for the illegal immigrants from Mexico and another for the ones from Cuba which changes them into legal immigrants if they can touch the beach before the Coast Guard arrests them, I am sure you have heard of it the Wet foot/Dry foot rule....

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2006/nov/14/editorial_election_fallout/?opinion


Now laws on property, the Supreme Court changed the law so what was once against the law "taking peoples property for a private developer", is now legal. So the laws of men are arbritary, so if I must obey them then I will fight using their own codes of law so that true justice is done. So if Christian "must submit himself to the governing authorities," tin my opinion, there is no reason we can't use their own rules against them as Paul used his badge of Roman citizenship to advantage.

Just so you get an idea of the injustice and the millions being spent for this developer, here is what I wrote about just ONE of over SIX major roads being built or widened for this developer using eminent domain:

"Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension will not be built because the people are against it, the cost of building roads has gone up astronomical so the estimate of 150 million has already doubled, and the political landscape will be changed at the voting booth at the next elections. Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension also is directly for the benefit of special interests and developers instead of the Golden Gates Estates Area residents. We were led to believe the roads they were building like Livingston, widening of Immokolee road, and Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension was to help the people of Golden Gates Estates, instead they were just highways leading straight to the developers front door.

It is so obvious the Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension is solely for the benefit of special interests and developers and was never to help Golden Gates residents except as a afterthough or side effect. Both the Immokolee Road expansion and Livingston Road were for allowing more growth, as well as the failed drive to expand Logan/Santa Barbara and connect to their development road grid that they are building. We must fight the road grid for more growth and demand they build roads for us, and pave our limerock roads, and build corridors for our access not just for more growth, developers and their rich friends.

The residents who live along the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension corridor believe the extension isn’t needed to serve existing residents but to serve developers wanting to build subdivisions farther east in the future. Instead of getting support from the Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association they were ignored, this is a important issue especially since enimient domain is creating fear among many Golden Gates Estate residents these days and knowing their civic associations stand behind them may have ease some of those fears. Instead it just made them worse and openned their eyes to what may be behind the undue influence and power plays by those who would reap the rewards from growth, roads to new developments and the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension.

The Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension has Golden Gate Estates residents running scared and frustrated ash they know they are going to give up their homes in the Estates just so developers can build more million dollar homes and benefit directly from the road. The roads for growth are getting heavy political pressure from Collier Development, which owns the land in the Big Cypress special development district that has yet to be developed at DeSoto Boulevard, where the Vanderbilt extension would end. Golden Gate Estates residents are sitting there not knowing what will happen to their nerborhoods with all these roads being bulldozed or expanded so close to their homes, not able to sell or move out till they find out how it will affect their real estate price.

At present no one will buy their houses or anything near the zone of destruction that the footprint from these roads or Vanderbilt Beach Road Extension might require. Their whole life is put on hold till the the roads are widened or built and the full extent of traffic noise and pollution becomes evident. Most Golden Gates homeowner’s don’t know who to turn to, the County Commissioners who betrayed them to this fate or the Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association who helped them put in roads that some say goes directly to developers and the Big Cypress district and will make them millions when it has a road grid making it accessible. The County says that the roads aren’t being widened or built to benefit a particular developer of a future project, but to handle the serious traffic snarls, but everyone can see how Collier Development, Ave Maria University and the other developers will benefit or reap profits.

The Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association had a chance to take a stand on supporting or opposing the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension, as well as giving a show of support to others facing the same fate such as the residents on Green Boulevard and the 16th Avenue extension projects, but they betrayed their constituants. On one side we need roads in Golden Gate Estates but on the other hand if all the roads are being built for developers and developments outside of Golden Gate Estates it doesn’t seem fair that Golden Gate Estates residents have to give up their homes so more growth and million dollar homes can be built at their expense.

Opposition from affected residents has been and will continue to be fierce and will slow them down and add litigation to the costs as the lawsuits will be many. They will not have enough money so the roads will get half done then they will try to come back for more taxes to pay for them. No one is going to be spared in this debacle from the taxpayers on down, residents losing their way of life, to the Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association.

When all is said and done, most of Golden Gates Estates residents will be long gone, and along with them the memories of what once was a beautiful place to live."
 
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reddogs

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Now here is the rub, the developement is Ave Maria University. They change the laws to allow developers to build it in environementally sensitive lands of the Everglades, took away property rights, and used public funds to build the infrastructure and roads for it to use, and even designated it as a special district so it has its own laws and regulations:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2004/apr/29/ndn_senate_approves_special_district_around_ave_ma/

Yes, it is that Ave Maria University......

Domino's Pizza founder tries for a Catholic theocracy in Florida
"NAPLES, Florida (AP) -- If Domino's Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan has his way, a new town being built in Florida will be governed according to strict Roman Catholic principles, with no place to get an abortion, pornography or birth control.

"The pizza magnate is bankrolling the project with at least $250 million and calls it "God's will."

"Civil libertarians say the plan is unconstitutional and are threatening to sue."

More at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html


Catholic Theocracy in America
A Catholic Theocracy with total obedience to the Magisterium

Here is why I don't buy pizza from Domino's. The founder wants to impose his religious beliefs on people who move to a town he is developing. One of the laws of the town is pharmacies must commit to not stocking contraceptives. Ummm...Didn't Griswold v Connecticut say that was unconstitutional? Clinics and doctors who set up practices in the town may not be able to prescribe contraceptives, they definitely won't do it for students. Again, Griswold v Connecticut is in violation here. I understand this is a "private" community, yet according to the Florida ACLU, a 1946 Supreme Court decision says "ownership of a town doesn't mean absolute dominion".


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,186202,00.html

When I joined the opposition to protect our property rights and fight the use of eminent domain I had no inkling of what was to be built as the politicians kept the reason for the changes of the laws and expenditures a secret. Only after a year and a half did we find out the reasons for all the changes, and great was our surprise...

Red
 
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reddogs

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I have always practiced "Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself" whether they believe or not, so I go and feed the homeless, visit those in jail, give my coat if I have two and they have none. I dont consider it a law, that is just the way I am and I understand and enjoy the fullfilment of it as Gods truth.


So I have a problem with statements such as "we should worry less about this Kingdom and worry more about the heavenly Kingdom." because that implies that we should not concern ourselves about our brothers/sisters or their situation here on earth, only about oneself, and getting only yourself to the "kingdom". Something about that just doesnt sit well with me and I cant quite put my finger on it, but it bothers me no end....
 
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catlover

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I have always practiced "Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself" whether they believe or not, so I go and feed the homeless, visit those in jail, give my coat if I have two and they have none. I dont consider it a law, that is just the way I am and I understand and enjoy the fullfilment of it as Gods truth.


So I have a problem with statements such as "we should worry less about this Kingdom and worry more about the heavenly Kingdom." because that implies that we should not concern ourselves about our brothers/sisters or their situation here on earth, only about oneself, and getting only yourself to the "kingdom". Something about that just doesnt sit well with me and I cant quite put my finger on it, but it bothers me no end....

I should clarify kingdom as government~ I think U.S Politics(government) to often dominates religion.

Doesn't worrying about the next kingdom involve loving thy neighbor? The examples you just gave?
 
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Sophia7

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I should clarify kingdom as government~ I think U.S Politics(government) to often dominates religion.

Doesn't worrying about the next kingdom involve loving thy neighbor? The examples you just gave?

I am a strong believer in a wall of separation between church and state. I don't believe that the church as an organization should endorse candidates for political office or tell people how to vote (and it's also illegal to do so as a non-profit entity). Neither do I believe that the government should make any laws that tell people how to worship. However, as individual Christians, I believe that sometimes we can love our neighbors by standing up for their rights and getting involved in the political process in an appropriate way.
 
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reddogs

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I am a strong believer in a wall of separation between church and state. I don't believe that the church as an organization should endorse candidates for political office or tell people how to vote (and it's also illegal to do so as a non-profit entity). Neither do I believe that the government should make any laws that tell people how to worship. However, as individual Christians, I believe that sometimes we can love our neighbors by standing up for their rights and getting involved in the political process in an appropriate way.


Amen :amen:
 
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catlover

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I am a strong believer in a wall of separation between church and state. I don't believe that the church as an organization should endorse candidates for political office or tell people how to vote (and it's also illegal to do so as a non-profit entity). Neither do I believe that the government should make any laws that tell people how to worship. However, as individual Christians, I believe that sometimes we can love our neighbors by standing up for their rights and getting involved in the political process in an appropriate way.

In my humble opinion, the government is not about rights and wrongs. The government is hardly a moral or religious compass. The government has been about, and still is about, keeping a very few in power and wealthy.
 
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