how should a christian view magic / sleight of hand

[Rubiks]

I like being entertained by magicians but the bible says not to do magic. I think the magic mentioned in the Bible is not the same you see today but I'm not sure

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

the whole point of 'magic' as in entertainment ('sleight of hand') is to deceive - and God is Truth...

 

[theophilus40]

I like being entertained by magicians but the bible says not to do magic. I think the magic mentioned in the Bible is not the same you see today but I'm not sure

You are right; the magic intended to entertain isn't the same as that in the Bible. Here is the first mention of magicians in the Bible.

So in the morning his spirit was troubled, and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt and all its wise men. Pharaoh told them his dreams, but there was none who could interpret them to Pharaoh.
(Genesis 41:8 ESV)
​

These magicians weren't entertainers but people who claimed to have special powers and knowledge from a supernatural source.

 

[RDKirk]

Someone who calls himself an "illusionist" or says he practices "sleight of hand" or otherwise indicates that he's just doing non-magical tricks is no different from any other entertainer... he's an actor.

If he's claiming supernatural powers--and some do--that's another issue entirely.

 

[sdowney717]

Someone who calls himself an "illusionist" or says he practices "sleight of hand" or otherwise indicates that he's just doing non-magical tricks is no different from any other entertainer... he's an actor.

If he's claiming supernatural powers--and some do--that's another issue entirely.

11 But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. 12 For every man threw down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron’s rod swallowed up their rods. 13 And Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.

Do you think such a thing possible today with a magician or sorcerer?
Maybe so, I do not know. Once a street magician invited me to try a trick with him. I was already a believer. So he gave me those solid rings that they click and join. I examined them and they were quite solid. Being mechanically minded, I could not find the joint. So the idea is you click them and they go together. So I held one, he held another and banged them together and it took him several tries, but they did. I must have been a trick ring, so like a sleight of hand.

A friend brought over a dowsing rod. He was so impressed with it and it seemed to work. I tried it and it did pull down with FORCE over the water line. It was an odd feeling experiencing that. So I told him I was a christian. And told him I would pray and it would stop working and it did. Then I told him I would pray it would work again and it did. He was very surprised! I told him their was a spiritual power working through that dowsing rod and he sort of believed me, but my friend did not think of it as evil even though I told him it was one of the secret things that God did not want us to mess with.

 

[Girder of Loins]

There is a big difference between magic and magick, and its not the spelling. We're comparing apples and oranges here.

 

[Lollerskates]

There is a big difference between magic and magick, and its not the spelling. We're comparing apples and oranges here.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Magic and magick are completely different "arts."

 

[David Sylvian]

I like being entertained by magicians but the bible says not to do magic. I think the magic mentioned in the Bible is not the same you see today but I'm not sure

No, it is not, and it is all about intention.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

There is a difference between a magic card trick and magic like what a witch would use. Magicians are simply illusionists. Theres no real magic used. They just use that word because when people hear it they think of what magic normally means.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Magic and magick are completely different "arts."

I personally never heard of the term magick really. And I have friends from all walks of life. Including an ex-friend who was a wiccan. They all spell magic like.. well what I just typed.

 

[Lollerskates]

There is a difference between a magic card trick and magic like what a witch would use. Magicians are simply illusionists. Theres no real magic used. They just use that word because when people hear it they think of what magic normally means.


I personally never heard of the term magick really. And I have friends from all walks of life. Including an ex-friend who was a wiccan. They all spell magic like.. well what I just typed.

Wiccans aren't really magickal, they are basically what Pagans were known as a time ago. I know some wiccans, and even wiccans like Willow from Buffy The Vampire Slayer aren't practicing magick. Now, when Willow went bat *$@# crazy after her girlfriend died, she was practicing magick. Magick is a dark art, and it is the type of art that actually uses inter-dimensional energy to conjure things, telekenisis, psionic assaults, bindings, demon crossover and trappings, psionic ensnares, force balls, astral projections, reality warping, and bilocation. Magick is the real deal stuff that magicians do for play - through illusion. Magickians are not using illusion. Magick is what Alister Crowley devoted his life to. Once you get into magick, it is all but impossible to get out because of the demonic energy signature on the magickian. They literally need Christ's power.

Possession is a form of magickal psionic attack used by demons, but human magickians also exploit this. People that try to open their pineal gland, and use latent psychic abilities are practicing a form of this art. It is dark because it is a forced set of abilities. It is unholy because humans are not supposed to use it right now. As said in the book of Enoch, I believe, God was angry with the fallen angels for showing humans magick, cosmetics, smithing, weapons creation, etc not because He didn't want us to know, but because the angels were teaching humans prematurely - it was a form of spiritual pollution and destruction (like handing a baby a loaded gun.) We were supposed to naturally learn abilities over tens of thousands of years. You know God likes things done in their due season, so that nothing is lacking. If we had maintained perfection, the tree of life (Christ) and a host of other angelic trees/stewards would have taught us slowly and naturally, according to God's will.

 

[Lollerskates]

There is a difference between a magic card trick and magic like what a witch would use. Magicians are simply illusionists. Theres no real magic used. They just use that word because when people hear it they think of what magic normally means.


I personally never heard of the term magick really. And I have friends from all walks of life. Including an ex-friend who was a wiccan. They all spell magic like.. well what I just typed.

Wiccans aren't really magickal, they are basically what Pagans were known as a time ago. I know some wiccans, and even wiccans like Willow from Buffy The Vampire Slayer aren't practicing magick. Now, when Willow went bat *$@# crazy after her girlfriend died, she was practicing magick. Magick is a dark art, and it is the type of art that actually uses inter-dimensional energy to conjure things, telekenisis, psionic assaults, bindings, demon crossover and trappings, psionic ensnares, force balls, astral projections, reality warping, and bilocation. Magick is the real deal stuff that magicians do for play - through illusion. Magickians are not using illusion. Magick is what Alister Crowley devoted his life to. Once you get into magick, it is all but impossible to get out because of the demonic energy signature on the magickian. They literally need Christ's power.

Possession is a form of magickal psionic attack used by demons, but human magickians also exploit this. People that try to open their pineal gland, and use latent psychic abilities are practicing a form of this art. It is dark because it is a forced set of abilities. It is unholy because humans are not supposed to use it right now. As said in the book of Enoch, I believe, God was angry with the fallen angels for showing humans magick, cosmetics, smithing, weapons creation, etc not because He didn't want us to know, but because the angels were teaching humans prematurely - it was a form of spiritual pollution and destruction (like handing a baby a loaded gun.) We were supposed to naturally learn abilities over tens of thousands of years. You know God likes things done in their due season, so that nothing is lacking. If we had maintained perfection, the tree of life (Christ) and a host of other angelic trees/stewards would have taught us slowly and naturally, according to God's will.

 

[asiyreh]

That sounds a little unsound there at the end Loller. There's a belief among those in the ruling "intellectual" elite, that Lucifer is the true god. Lucifer is the one to bring enlightenment as he encouraged us to learn, to sample the knowledge of good and evil. I'm not sure I want to go along with the last paragraph of your statement there.

God doesn't allow magic as it involves the worship of demonic principalities.

This whole fight is about whether you believe God is the only one who is worthy of worship or not. I think God is the only right choice. This life, this world is what happens under any other rulership but that of God. I think that God is the only right choice and is the only one worthy of Worship. Anything that goes against that should be avoided by the church

As for the Ops question. Magic tricks etc... I'd say there ok as long as the guy isn't claiming he gets his power from such and such demonic entity.

 

[parsley]

Do you think such a thing possible today with a magician or sorcerer?

If it happened then, it would logically happen now. Nothing has changed in that respect, that we know of. We didn't see a sudden die-off of demons with the last asteroid.

Someone who calls himself an "illusionist" or says he practices "sleight of hand" or otherwise indicates that he's just doing non-magical tricks is no different from any other entertainer... he's an actor.

If he's claiming supernatural powers--and some do--that's another issue entirely.

A Christian or Jew who calls on the name of the Lord, is relying on the Creator of the Universe for help. Asking God to glorify Himself, not to glorify the human.

According to Judeo-Christian doctrine, a person who practices magic or other mysterious power plays, invokes a spirit to do the work. They might take credit for themselves, but they are calling on an unpredictable spiritual entity to demonstrate power for them.

These spirits are out for themselves. They have no reason to bow to a human, other than eventual trickery and flipping the tables on them. They might help one minute, then destroy the person the next.

Whether illusionists draw people into a desire to practice supernatural magic, that's worth pondering. That could be said of fiction, movies, games, and many other forms of entertainment. The title of illusionist would help. We are responsible for the actions we take, so it is worth weighing.

 

[PaladinValer]

I like being entertained by magicians but the bible says not to do magic. I think the magic mentioned in the Bible is not the same you see today but I'm not sure

Tell us; what did "magic" incorporate back in those days? What defined it?

Is that the same as the prestidigitation seen today?

Once this research is done, if it is done correctly, the truth will be known.

 

[Lollerskates]

That sounds a little unsound there at the end Loller. There's a belief among those in the ruling "intellectual" elite, that Lucifer is the true god. Lucifer is the one to bring enlightenment as he encouraged us to learn, to sample the knowledge of good and evil. I'm not sure I want to go along with the last paragraph of your statement there.

I don't know what is unsound in your opinion, but I can understand your reservation to accept or entertain what I put down. If/when you are paralyzed wide awake by principalities, or when you are psionically attacked, telekinetically moved, or hit with light-orb force balls, my last paragraph will be much more sound. It is unfortunate that the last paragraph I previously wrote about was from experience - not because I am a magickian, but because I have had unfortunate and unwanted experiences with demons and psychic assaults. . I have literally seen magick forged from human, and especially from inter-dimensional entities like demons. The stuff is no joke.

God doesn't allow magic as it involves the worship of demonic principalities.

This whole fight is about whether you believe God is the only one who is worthy of worship or not. I think God is the only right choice. This life, this world is what happens under any other rulership but that of God. I think that God is the only right choice and is the only one worthy of Worship. Anything that goes against that should be avoided by the church

Of course God is the only right choice, but when people practice magick (the spelling matters,) they are worshiping another set of gods. As said before, magick is real - not the "white magic" on TV, but actual borrowed powers of principalities in action. I have been something of a casualty of it, and there are plenty of people who have been casualties of it. It is much more dangerous and powerful than Cris Angel, or David Blane...

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

demons have no power; but rather use the authority in the earth that God gave to people in flesh bodies by deceiving them to believe and speak evil. but the power that Jesus has given us as reborn believers over all demons and devils trumps any and every evil intent when we believe and speak according to God's leading; as our mouths are bought with a price, and when we yeild them to God and speak the words He would have us speak, it is Him speaking in the earth with the authority over the earth He gave to us - and His words do not return to Him void, but accomplish the things He pleases, and His words prosper. demons are actually very small creatures with very big mouths, and live in constant fear of the Spirit of God that dwells in every reborn believer

 

[Another Lazarus]

i think fast hands trickery for entertainment is different with withcraft magic.

 

[theophilus40]

There are illusionists who use their skills as an aid to preaching the gospel.

Fellowship of Christian Magicians - USA & Canada

This is completely different from the kind of magic condemned in the Bible.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

The Law states that we should avoid wicked customs.

You shall not practice divination (seeking input from a god through signs, etc) or soothsaying. ~Lev 19:26

Give no regard to mediums and spirits; do not seek them out. ~Lev 19:31

There shall not be found among you one who practices withcraft, or one who interprets signs, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. ~Deut 18:10-11


Since modern-day magic is just a play on physics and skill with hands, God would not have a problem with it.

 

[Lollerskates]

The Law states that we should avoid wicked customs.

You shall not practice divination (seeking input from a god through signs, etc) or soothsaying. ~Lev 19:26

Give no regard to mediums and spirits; do not seek them out. ~Lev 19:31

There shall not be found among you one who practices withcraft, or one who interprets signs, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. ~Deut 18:10-11


Since modern-day magic is just a play on physics and skill with hands, God would not have a problem with it.

I am a physicist; its not modern physics. In fact, I am the same type of physicist as these "entities" exploit: quantum chromodynamics. Sure, electricity would make a modern physicist seem like a warlock, but these things that attack people, and take over people - they use a whole different "tap" of energy. Demonic energy projection, reality warping, healing factors, force-balls, astral projections, electromagnetic manipulation via "human" hands - these are things physics wouldn't dare try to attack in this day. I lived those things, and I know how "advanced" physics is today. A low-level demon would stomp your most intelligent physicist of this day in an instant. Science and supernatural cant compare because one doesn't even recognize the other as real (science to supernatural.) That makes the "scientist" at the disadvantage immediately. As I told someone else earlier, unless you have seen these entities, been psionically attacked, physically attacked (force-balls,) experienced sleep and conscious paralysis... you have no idea what these things are capable of. The fact that I am writing this response is because of Christ, and God - and the many times I call out to them while I get attacked. It isn't just me either (so don't you dare shred an ounce of pity.) I say all of this to highlight that this "principality" game is much more involved that what people think. Magick is real.