How should a "Christian" deal with "heretics"?

DogmaHunter said:

But Jesus, IS god, right?

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Yes. Fully God and fully man.

Freodin said:

It's funny. There are people out there who say "Lord, Lord!" and banish demons in Jesus name... and Jesus never knew them.
There are people out there who believe that Noah came from another dimension and his grandsons had children with a different human race, created by another deity.
There are people out there who like to cite how the "church" has fallen away, and how "only a few selected will be saved".

But when it comes to the argument of big numbers... everyone is a Christian. 3.4 billions of them. (And that isn't even true: statistics say about 2.2 billions, which considering all the other religions is a lot closer)

Well, what do you think about the more than 5 billion people who are not Christians? Are these people all idiots?

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Well look up the Nicene Creed, that is the creed all of Christianity follows to determine who and what the main tenants of the faith are. And that is AGREED upon by the denominations.

No one said there are not demonimations or small differences, but I'm not sure where you get your Noah came from another dimension information. That is strange.

DogmaHunter said:

Ow not at all. I'm sorry if that is the impression you got. No, clearly atheists are more then capable of believing nonsense, surely. However, I do actively try and stay as rational as possible. I actively try not to let emotion etc cloud my judgement. Surely I'm not always succesfull at it.

But as far as theism goes, the actual belief in the religious claims, yes - i have no problem at all saying that on that specific subject, theists are being irrational and atheists are being rational. Well, no, I should qualify that.... if the atheist is being rational, would actually depend on why they don't believe.

If their reason for not believing is "a goblin from another dimension told me that there are no gods", then I wouldn't exactly call that rational.

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Well and that is a difference of opinion.

I'm not going to go home and cry because you think I'm irrational though.

DogmaHunter said:

Sure. You are to, in most aspects of your life, I'ld guess. But when it comes to belief in the religious claims? Not really.

Appealing to faith to accept things as true, is never rational.
Faith as a basis for belief, is by definition irrational.

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Again. Your opinion. You have the free will to make your choices and I have the same free will to make mine.

I think it is much more rational to believe that God created everything than to know that science cannot explain life or how the universe came into existence, yet you hang your hat on science.

To me, that is very irrational. At least God is a full explanation. Science begins where God let science begin, which is not having the answers. So says God's Word.

Romans 1:18-23
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Freodin said:

Still... again you seemed to have missed my point. And ignored my question.

Was there a "Nicene Creed" when Jesus alledgedly said "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord' shall enter the kingdom of heaven"? Even if they cast out demons in his name?

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There are people who are going to come up with all kinds of excuses, but the truth is that those who are God's children know God and God knows them.

People's excuses however are not going to matter.

Each Christian sealed in the New Covenant by the indwelling Holy Spirit is saved. Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. And people either have the Holy Spirit or not.

Romans 8:16
16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
21 Now it is God who establishes both us and you in Christ. He anointed us, 22 placed His seal on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a pledge of what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13
13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth— the gospel of your salvation— you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.


I have also included this below. What is the seal of the Holy Spirit?

Question: "What is the seal of the Holy Spirit?"

Answer: The Holy Spirit is referred to as the “deposit,” “seal,” and “earnest” in the hearts of Christians (2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30). The Holy Spirit is God’s seal on His people, His claim on us as His very own. The Greek word translated “earnest” in these passages is arrhabōn which means “a pledge,” that is, part of the purchase money or property given in advance as security for the rest. The gift of the Spirit to believers is a down payment on our heavenly inheritance, which Christ has promised us and secured for us at the cross. It is because the Spirit has sealed us that we are assured of our salvation. No one can break the seal of God.

The Holy Spirit is given to believers as a “first installment” to assure us that our full inheritance as children of God will be delivered. The Holy Spirit is given to us to confirm to us that we belong to God who grants to us His Spirit as a gift, just as grace and faith are gifts (Ephesians 2:8-9). Through the gift of the Spirit, God renews and sanctifies us. He produces in our hearts those feelings, hopes, and desires which are evidence that we are accepted by God, that we are regarded as His adopted children, that our hope is genuine, and that our redemption and salvation are sure in the same way that a seal guarantees a will or an agreement. God grants to us His Holy Spirit as the certain pledge that we are His forever and shall be saved in the last day. The proof of the Spirit’s presence is His operations on the heart which produce repentance, the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), conformity to God’s commands and will, a passion for prayer and praise, and love for His people. These things are the evidences that the Holy Spirit has renewed the heart and that the Christian is sealed for the day of redemption.

So it is through the Holy Spirit and His teachings and guiding power that we are sealed and confirmed until the day of redemption, complete and free from the corruption of sin and the grave. Because we have the seal of the Spirit in our hearts, we can live joyfully, confident of our sure place in a future that holds unimaginable glories.

Freodin said:

So, it's not 3.4 billion Christians then? Or even 2.2 billion? Only those who have the "Holy Spirit"?

Fine. If you say so.

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The number of Christians is by a Pew Internet study.

God's children are those who have the Holy Spirit. Could be more than what Pew Internet says, could be less. I'm not God.

Freodin said:

But what does that mean for all the rest? The "not true Christians" as well as the non-Christians? Idiots? Irrational? EVIL?

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It is really not that difficult to understand. Jesus will separate the sheep (those with the indwelling Holy Spirit, sealed in the New Covenant) from the goats (those who do not have the Holy Spirit).

Matthew 25:31-34
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Freodin said:

Again, you show your complete inability to perceive these problems with the view of a non-believer.

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The problem is that I don't think like you do and what I am doing is sharing with you God's Word and trying to answer your questions, but you jump all over and don't really give a well written thought when you write. Read your posts.

I provide the answers I think you are asking.

Christian population growth - Wikipedia

Second sentence:

According to a 2011 Pew Research Center survey, there were 2.19 billion Christians around the world in 2010,

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From World’s largest religion by population is still Christianity published last year has 2.34 billion in 2015.

Freodin said:

I wouldn't dare to assume that I could define who is who... but I guess you Christians of all stripes have no problems with that.

So how do you suppose to deal with someone who teaches a "false" version of Christianity? Would it matter if it was a "false" version of "basic doctrine" or just different interpretations of "marginal details"?

I have heard that Christians should not correct their fellow believers "in public"... so that unbelievers can see the differences that exists between them. (Oh my, we would need to be so blind not to notice. )

But what about when a fellow believer teaches his "false doctrines" to unbelievers? Do you have a duty to correct them, so that the unbelievers do not get a wrong image of your religion?

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An inquisition is the tried and true mechanism for dealing with all heretics.

Freodin said:

A devout Mulism will tell me something very much like what you told me above, complete with verses from the Qu'ran, showing me exactly why only those who truly follow the teachings of the Final and Greatest Prophets of God will enter the paradise, and all the rest... well, they made their own decision. But a true believer has FAITH!

Well, I don't. I have nothing that would help me deciding between having "faith" in Jesus or "faith" in Allah or "faith" in the Holy Spaghetti Monster. Because the things that would help me make such a distinction - erm, cough evidence cough - does not exist.

But 3.4 billion Christians are definitly more right than 1.7 billion Muslim or 1.2 billion Hindus or all the rest, who might not agree on every detail, but all agree on one fact: that Christianity is wrong.

See, we understand that you believe in your religion. We understand that you think it is great and that everyone should do the same.

But so do a lot of other people, who disagree with you.

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I really do welcome you to go to the World Religions sub forum if you want to know what they believe and why. I can only speak from my own experience and from my heart.

You need to do your own research if Hindu's and Islaam interest you.

Freodin said:

The Pew Study of 2016 set the number of Christians at 2.3 billions. That's only 1.1 billions less than what you said. Honest mistake or exaggeration?

Well, no, you are not God. And God (Jesus) himself is claimed to have said that not everyone who claims to be a Christian will be "saved".

A rational person could conclude that this would mean that there are less people saved that there are people claiming to be Christians.

And you are a rational person, are you not?

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I should think you would be glad to meet a person who does not say they speak for God, because no man, but Jesus Christ ever has or ever will.

What it really seems like is that you want answers, not from Apologetics, but world views of all sorts of different people.

There is the World Religion sub forum.

If that is what you like, please go there, but do not insult me because I do not profess to speak for God.

You can go find any crazy you like, that think they speak for God, and maybe that is what you are looking for. If so, please find that.

I am not that person.

Freodin said:

Well, it was you who started to talk about the 3.4 billion Christians, and who accused him of believing that all these people were "idiots".

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Well, I remember the number from Pew Internet being 3.4 Billion. So that is what I wrote.

Also, if you look at who I called an 'idiot' in context, what I said was that for atheists to believe that billions and billions of people are talking or praying to air or nothing and to think we could not tell if we had a relationship and conversations with God, rather than air, is calling US idiots.

It is irrational. That atheists think no God exists but that intelligent people would spend hours and hours per week talking to something that is not there, IMHO is calling us idiots.

But the truth is, is that there are WAY to many people and smart intelligent people to act like or rationalize that there is nothing there. That is not a rational position, IMHO by atheists.

Freodin said:

And you are wrong. You were corrected on that. You might want to acknowledge your mistake. (And BTW: you are on the internet. It took me a 5 seconds google search to find multiple sources.)
And you are WRONG on that.

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I didn't mislead you on purpose, but as of 2015 it seems it was closer to your number. I double-checked and not afraid to admit if I am wrong.