How serious are you when it comes to Christmas and your belief?

[Iollain]

I see it as a ritualistic part of Christmas because growing up Christmas was really about the only time we had anything to do with Christianity. I can't remember hearing much more about Jesus but Christmas and the few times i went to church with Granny. I can see why my ancestors worshipped nature, they relied so much on the harvest for life it's self.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

I wonder what you think as you get a young tree (even the plastic one from the shop) and erect it in your house? I wonder if you relate it to Christianity or see it as a ritual and 'part of Christmas'?

James

I would not use the word ritual because that deals with worship and that I do not do with our tree. Tradition would be a better choice of words from my perspective of things. As far as relating the tree to Christ, no I don't think it reletes to Christ at all. To me its a decoration no more no less. Its not something I get all jazzed up about. My biggest wish is to find a nice nativity scene so I could display that up also. I would rather put the presents under that, than under the tree.
Christmas is not the same anymore in my home. Its differant and I know there are traditions I won't keep, like the Santa thing my parents did, and some I will keep such as baking cookies and decorating the tree. We are also starting our own traditions with our children that have more to do with Christ and less to do with the worldly things.
GEL

 

[Iollain]

Yeah i ment ritual in the noun sence of the word. hehe

 

[QustantinahQuaker]

I don't celebrate Christmas. It's not really a "Christian" holiday. It's mostly pagan ritual left over from Roman times. Nowadays it's just a reason for getting gifts. If someone gives me a gift however, I accept it and get them something if I can. That's just common curtosy. I heard about a town in MA that wouldn't put up a Manora for the Jews on their town green, but puts up Christmas decorations. Some equal representation!

 

[FreeinChrist]

Christmas is a man made thing, we all know Jesus Christ was probably not born around this time and pagen rituals shaped what we know as Christmas today.

Gift giving, family reunions, remembering Christ are all positives.

Finacial difficulties, alcohol, trees, decorations and family disagreements or accidents are negatives.

I wondered how people who know the Bible cope with this season? We thinkabout Jesus Christ daily, we meditate on The Bible daily, so what is Christmas to you?

James

I celebrate Christmas. I love thanking God for sending His Son!!

And I love getting together with friends and family to rejoice.

And I love it that lots of opportunities to give (presents for children of prisoners as if from the prisioner, food bank drives, angel trees, missionary projects etc.) are made available - though I would like to see more during the year.

A missionary couple from my church who spends most of their time in Syria or Egypt have said how much they appreciate seeing Christmas light on house - an actual sign of celebration. Of course, the nativity ones are the best, IMHO.
I like the church pagents, love music like Handel's Messiah and hyms like O Holy NIght and Joy to the World.

I believe the key is to celebrate for the right reasons - Jesus! One person once told me that that having a poinsetta was wrong because it was used in pagan celebrations...but I think it is just a pretty flower that blooms this time of year and they look great! I can't help what people have done wrong over the millennia - I will appreciate the flower because it was created by God.

 

[newlite]

santa clause!!!!!!

i get presents, money, good food. that all christmas is really about now. i found it has pretty much lost its focus of jesus. any kid know santa. who knows jesus though. everyone still goes to church that second time in a year. you never hear old christmas carols playing in stores. what happen to away in a manger. all in all christmas is just more or less a nother time to get fat without feeling guilty. i want it to be more, but its just me here. and i aint the very strongest guy around...christmas isnt christmas now, its xmas. most people cant even say christ in it now. i dont know. i normall stand alone in these areas though...

its the season you love to hate and hate to love. it the chearest yet depressingist season. me feeling of good seams to always lower this time of year. i just want it to pass over right now...if gods not in it, whats the point?

 

[FreeinChrist]

If God isn't in it - that is our fault.

I have some wonderful Christmas memories as a child with my church family and my own family that are not about presents. I LOVE hearing about the birth of Christ and that God keeps His promises!! He provided the Lamb!!!
Allelujah!!!!

 

[Carrye]

Then I realized that modern Christmas has little to do with Christ, it is a secular holiday mostly, not a corruption of a Christian holiday.

That's an interesting perspective. Can you say more about that, LL?

 

[mesue]

I celebrate Christmas as Christ's birthday. I don't have any other date to point me to His birthday.
It's a good reson to reach out to others and tell then about the Lord and and His free gift to us
It's a good reason for us to go out and bring people to Him.
It is a good reason to sing songs of praise and worship the Gift that He gave us: Eternal Life. And He gave it so freely.
Focus on the good of the season, not the bad.

 

[SonOfThunder]

There is a strong chance that your new church celebrates Christmas. They may even have a tree and other decorations in the church. The pastor may preach messages about the birth of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels.

I encourage you to quietly refrain from direct participation, but allow them to do what their conscience allows them. Please read Romans chapter 14. That will help you to deal with the differences between your own position on this matter and that of others.

In fact, you might even find the pastor's messages around this time of year to be particularly instructive and full of blessing.

Just my .02


--

Last night I went for Bible study and saw a tree in the church, right up the front with gifts around it. It is over to one side but I am a bit upset by seeing it in a place of worship.

Just don't know how to take this.


James

 

[newlite]

my church has a big tree. it looks really nice with lights and decorated with a buch of christain symbels. it doesnt have gifts under it though...just think of gods gift to us when you see those presents...?

 

[S682]

I don't know if this means anything, or not.

It has been explained to me that the evergreen tree represents everlasting life, the red represents the blood Christ shed for us, the green represents life, and so on. The angels represent heaven, etc. The Star of Bethlehem for the topper on the tree, of course is the star that led the shepherds and the 3 wise men, or whatever they were. The presents are as the presents of the 3 wise men they gave to the Christ child. I see nothing wrong with generosity during the Christmas holiday, but greed for the "biggest and best" idea is definitely a down side for our children. As parents, we really must teach what the Christmas story is all about, and to be grateful for whatever we do get as gifts.

 

[GreenEyedLady]

Last night I went for Bible study and saw a tree in the church, right up the front with gifts around it. It is over to one side but I am a bit upset by seeing it in a place of worship.

Just don't know how to take this.


James

Well James, I can understand why you feel this way.
You have been raised to believe that this verse.............

Jeremiah 10:3-5 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

.......is about a Christmas tree. You have been told that this is where the Christmas tree orginated. this is not a tree like what you have been told. This tree was carved on. Its like a totem pole that was decorated. I took this verse apart hard and studied in in the Hebrew. This idol was being carved and adorned and then worshipped.
Here is the big thing about the whole tree thing. Its a decoration. Just like a wreath. Now if there were people dancing around it, singing praises to the tree, then I would be worried.
My chuch personally does not have a tree in it so that it might not be a stumbling block to someone from your backround. I think its a great idea. However, members of our church do have trees in thier home, not to idolize, but to decorate thier homes. Its a tradition, not a ritual.
So I can understand why you are uncomfortable. Trees are used in many many ways.
I hope this helps.
Have you talked to the pastor about your backround? Never did hear if it went ok or not.
GEL

 

[SonOfThunder]

Well James, I can understand why you feel this way.
You have been raised to believe that this verse.............

Jeremiah 10:3-5 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

.......is about a Christmas tree. You have been told that this is where the Christmas tree orginated. this is not a tree like what you have been told. This tree was carved on. Its like a totem pole that was decorated. I took this verse apart hard and studied in in the Hebrew. This idol was being carved and adorned and then worshipped.
Here is the big thing about the whole tree thing. Its a decoration. Just like a wreath. Now if there were people dancing around it, singing praises to the tree, then I would be worried.
My chuch personally does not have a tree in it so that it might not be a stumbling block to someone from your backround. I think its a great idea. However, members of our church do have trees in thier home, not to idolize, but to decorate thier homes. Its a tradition, not a ritual.
So I can understand why you are uncomfortable. Trees are used in many many ways.
I hope this helps.
Have you talked to the pastor about your backround? Never did hear if it went ok or not.
GEL

Hi Mrs. Gel

Thanks for answering, I know today people don't idolize trees and it does stem from tradition. Here in Australia it is popular to dress up the outside of homes with lights, decorations, santas, trees are adorned and moving teddies dressed up like elves and reindeers wear hats and dance through gardens. All this generates so much public interest that some streets have to have traffic control as many many many people seek to see the lights. This is now becoming tradition much like the tree became tradition. In shops is the navitity scene lost amongst the santa's, tinsel, crackers and snowmen (which is funny here in Australia) ?

My local shops have a grotto for santa and none that displays the manger.

It is a stumbling block to me when I look up at the pastor and hear his voice and see a tree in the corner, I wont mention it to the pastor as so far in answer to your question I have told no-one I am and ex Jehovah's Witness.

I don't see the problem, personally, provided that children are taught the true meaning of Christmas... the celebration of the birth of Jesus.

Why? My 2 year old son understands Christmas (at least as much as any 2 year old can), partially because of the decorations we've put up and the teaching opportunities they've presented. I've relayed the story about the teaching opportunity a nativity set presented in a previous thread. The Christmas tree? Every morning, he comes down the stairs and points to the star on top of our Christmas tree with the joy only a child can have, "There's the STAR!". Every morning, my wife asks him why the star is there... and explains to him that the star is a reminder that God placed a star in the sky to mark the birth of Jesus, which the magi followed... Most times, he can answer the question himself. As for the gifts? Surprisingly, he doesn't seem to care much. He's more interested in GIVING them than receiving (again, reference the previous thread where I posted about his response to Operation Christmas Child).

I guess what I'm getting at is this: the "traditions" of Christmas, in and of themselves, have little or no value... but when used as a teaching tool and a reminder of why we celebrate Christmas, they're more than worth it, and in my opinion, are certainly not inappropriate for church.

I know many beg to differ. To those of you that do? Lighten up a bit and allow yourself to find ways to use those things to bring the focus of Christmas back where it should be: Christ! My personal opinion is that a LOT of the things we oppose on grounds of right and wrong in regard to our faith are a lot like the issues Paul was addressing in Romans 14.

My apologies in advance if I've offended anyone by my comments. This Christmas, to date, has been more meaningful to me than any in my 28 years here on earth, not only for the joy I see in my son's eyes because of Christmas, but also because of the strong focus we've made on its meaning as a family in order to ensure our son grows up with the correct understanding of Christmas (thankfully, he appears to be getting it so far!). Perhaps, because of this, I'm a little bit overzealous in wanting others to experience what I have thus far.

Anyway... that's my take. God bless!

This writer has a great deal of common sense, and thankyou for the post. I like the way you have made your traditions point to Scripture and feel if that was the case all over the world it would be ok, I try and think back to the Temple and how Jesus overturned the money changers tables, and how in the OT they purified the Temple and it was indeed a sacred place with the very presense of Jehovah God. I sometimes think of God as a jealous God and wonder how he would view a Christmas Tree? If man is getting toward idolizing this verse comes to mind.



2COR 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2COR 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.


James

 

[NiceRice]

When it comes to Christmas, I view it as two holidays--one secular, one sacred. When I get together with family and eat special foods and we exchange gifts or when I hear songs like "Frosty the Snowman" and I see reindeer and all, I just think of all of that as part of my culture. Then, when I think of Christ's birth and all that that means, I think of that as a separate religious holiday.

What do reindeer have to do with Christ? Nothing. But, I don't think that reindeer take away from Christ's birth.

What about snow, tinsel, and lights? I have a hard time seeing that snow is antithetical to Christ. It's just part of the season in the northern part of the northern hemisphere.

As for Santa . . . OK . . . some people let Santa distract them from Christ. They actually lie to their children that Santa exists, and some kids grow up with great disappointment when they find out he is not real. My parents never lied to me. So, I have always had fun with the "jolly old elf." And, as I found out the history behind him, I have found that he was a pastor in Asia who was devoted to Jesus Christ. If Santa were to show up in my town today, he would encourage all to bow to Jesus Christ and would not compete for one instance with Christ for any glory.

In conclusion, I would ask . . . Is it the sun's fault that some worship it instead of God? Is it the tree's fault that some cut it down to carve an idol from it? I think the fault lies in someone's heart. If someone wants to worship Christ in the midst of the decorations and feasting, I think it is very possible. If someone doesn't, then even if there were no decorations and no feasting, he still wouldn't worship Christ.

NiceRice